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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host

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and if only you could see behind the

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fourth wall as it is just got into the

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hotel room there's probably stuff in the

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background i can see it uh anyway just

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made it here

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in time stuck behind log trucks in

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northern california

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i got to meet with some great people out

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here i've been having a good time uh ben

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hansen um the friend that's with me and

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i hung around together uh for several

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hours um got to hang out with alejandro

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and karen

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for a few different times and uh uh

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barbecue over at bryce zabel's house

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with david o'leary from project blue

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book it's been a blast out here i've

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been having a really good time and uh so

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next week i hope to have uh

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gary nolan down in stanford i'm just

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waiting to hear back from him to see if

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he's good to go on that if not we do

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have um a really fantastic guest that

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was part of the vietnam war

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uh he had us

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an encounter during the vietnam war so

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that should be

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really exciting either way next week and

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we'll be doing that from still from

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california out here uh just a couple

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things

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our blog this week

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is ufos over pine bush which was a place

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um i was at just uh well about a month

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ago somewhere around there and another

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great blog by charles lear thank you

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charles for that

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our guest tonight is dr bob gross i met

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him out in

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phoenix i believe was 2019 or 18 i can't

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really remember for sure a great guy um

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he's going to be talking about kind of

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how the

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the the ufo the

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things seem to be flowing forward and

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how he can with his education background

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um kind of get the word out there and a

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lot of other things we'll be

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talking on several different topics

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about that i do want to touch on

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something and

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i in no way am i trying to say that

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i'm a good

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great person and everyone should listen

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to me but i will tell you

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a situation last night i was asked to go

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on a

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radio show um i believe it was a live

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show

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and

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the topic was the three i believe three

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things that are going on on the second

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part of the american horror story uh

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which is a great series uh in its tenth

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season i was surprised to hear that

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on netflix and the second part of that

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is about

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the eisenhower ufo agreement quote

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unquote

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serpo

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and also about valiant thor

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and so

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all these stories

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uh in my mind are are major hoaxes but

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american horror story is using them for

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um their entertainment and show this

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year so basically i was asked to come on

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and talk about those things uh my the

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person with me uh we were researching

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these things while i was driving north

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in california

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and i'm kind of just laughing at at some

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of the aspects of these things and so i

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i called back the publicist and said hey

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look just so let you know that uh

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i think all these things are just bs and

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it's all hoaxes and you know i i need

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for the uh the host of the show to know

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that's the approach that i have to take

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and he says yeah well you can say

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alleged this alleged that

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anyway uh i got booted i got booted off

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the show because i wanted to

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say uh what these things really are

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which are

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all hoaxes and they're so crazy anything

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if any research is done at all in any of

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these things that totally they totally

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fall apart each and every one of them

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so um

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the point i'm getting at is

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you have to watch where you're

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you're you're getting your information

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if you're new

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in this topic and you want to understand

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what's going on

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if you listen to the person that may

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have taken my place

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they're going to be all sold on the idea

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that all these things

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that are way way out there fringy uh

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really happened and uh if you really

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want to know

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uh things that really

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do happen in the ufo field you have to

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watch where you're getting your

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information from and it's kind of too

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bad i've seen a lot of things over the

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years where

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kind of this fantasy will all of a

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sudden turn into a fact um you know so

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you just have to be careful if you're

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new in looking into this topic and

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anyway we're ready to bring in our guest

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this this evening

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uh bob welcome to the show

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thank you martin great to see you again

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that's right dr bob i should say

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yes yeah it was great i you know you you

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were on the we had a big round table do

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you recall that yes yes

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that was a blast

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2018 at the uh international ufc yes

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yeah yeah lots of fun so bob um

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you're since then you have been looking

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into what's happening in the ufo field

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and and your thoughts let's uh first of

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all before we get into any of that

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um let's hear about your background and

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what got you interested in this topic to

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begin with if you would well first of

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all i really enjoyed your introduction

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just now what you said was exactly

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on the mark

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and i hope i can you know prove that to

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you this evening with the information

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that i have for you but uh

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again my name is dr bob wenzel gross

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i'm originally from the pittsburgh

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pennsylvania area

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and

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by nature

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i'm a creative artist

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who selected music

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as my preferred medium of expression

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in

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i received a doctorate of education from

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penn state university

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and back then i was curious about things

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like aesthetics

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acoustics

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music and research

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i mean real research and i did a lot of

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research for penn state and i went

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around the country presenting my

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research

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about

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penn state for penn state on behalf of

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penn state so

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that my research my advanced approach to

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research prompted

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penn state university's graduate school

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to

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excellent rating

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so that's basically

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how i started out there

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i have just just to give you a thumbnail

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sketch of my career

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because we could probably be here all

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night i'm like 73 years old but

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i i have 25 years in education

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as a teacher

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i taught at the

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higher education level i taught at penn

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state university i taught at indiana

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university of pennsylvania i taught at

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uh at south texas college

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and i i taught at new mexico state

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university

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and i also taught in the public schools

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i taught in elementary schools as well

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as secondary schools

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then on top of that 25 years of teaching

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i did 17 years in administration

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so i had uh i worked for both uh

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educational institutions and i worked

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for governments

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i i was uh

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i worked for

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the uh at local governments

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for state governments and i worked for

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the federal governments

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a federal government i'm sorry federal

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government

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yes

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[Music]

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yeah i don't want to give myself away

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here but

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but i i was a uh i started out as what

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was called a change agent

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then i became a curriculum specialist

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and then i was a

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a troubleshooter

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and a turnaround specialist for the

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government

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and i think uh

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and what got me started in uh the whole

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idea of researching uaps is that the

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best word i guess

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that's the best thing to call them right

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now but they were uh yeah i mean my my

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opinion is

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there's only a small fraction of the

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society that

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knows what they are and they're trying

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to make that an upper level word

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that's not associated with aliens right

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away or fringe or whatever the little

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green men as they say but but um

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you can say this part of the name of my

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show is podcast ufo you're welcome to

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use either word

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because sometimes i i will say uh

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uap

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formerly known as ufos there you go kind

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of like what they say about prince

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yeah

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pretty funny but uh and anyhow you know

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that's i i got interested in them

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because in 1985

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i was writing a children's musical

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and i lived in pennsylvania at that time

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and i wanted to write this children's

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musical

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about

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real

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ufo events that occurred in pennsylvania

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and that's when i had heard about the

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the group called

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the pennsylvania association for the

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study of the unexplained

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is that was dan gordon yes that was

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stan's good group stan gordon's group

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and i contacted him

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and uh i told him my background what i

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was going to do and i told them you know

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i was a researcher for penn state and

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you know i had the credentials and so

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forth and i still had to go through a

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background check and a uh

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you know an interview and i think it was

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one of those uh baseline psychological

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tests and then they accepted me into uh

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it was called passa

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and they were they were a pretty

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reputable reputable group back in 1985

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but that's how i got started

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and

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when you were involved in that group how

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how much did you get involved in that

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like they have so many things going on

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there um according to stan there's

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all types of cryptids and i mean are you

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involved in all of it

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yes

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uh yeah i can remember the first uh i

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was a field investigator

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and we went through a little bit of

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training the group was it was i think

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about 35 members at that time and they

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had a lot of professionals in that group

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and i remember either

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he assigned me to go out and another

287
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,120
person who was a movie producer we were

288
00:12:01,829 --> 00:12:00,000
going out to investigate this one

289
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:01,839
strange things that was happening at

290
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:03,279
this one house

291
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,000
and then finally the person called me

292
00:12:09,670 --> 00:12:08,399
back and said well i was

293
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:09,680
you know these things really didn't

294
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,360
happen at my house but there were some

295
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:13,519
really strange things going on so i was

296
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:16,000
kind of glad that that one didn't happen

297
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:17,680
but uh

298
00:12:26,069 --> 00:12:22,720
yeah yeah in 1987 uh pasa put together a

299
00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:26,079
like a workshop on ufos at the at the

300
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:26,959
greens

301
00:12:29,509 --> 00:12:27,839
i think

302
00:12:30,470 --> 00:12:29,519
greensburg

303
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:30,480
mall

304
00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:31,680
something like that outside of

305
00:12:35,509 --> 00:12:33,040
pittsburgh

306
00:12:37,269 --> 00:12:35,519
and so i went to that and he had a lot

307
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:37,279
of different people there

308
00:12:42,389 --> 00:12:40,480
and that's when i ran into some

309
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:42,399
live witnesses for the first time that

310
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:44,959
came forward about the kecksburg case

311
00:12:49,509 --> 00:12:47,279
that happened in 1965.

312
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,519
so that was was a pretty uh

313
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:51,839
interesting place and i ran into linda

314
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:53,519
moulton's house mother

315
00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:55,440
when i was there wow

316
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:56,880
that's that's what she said she was

317
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,279
though yeah i don't know for sure

318
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:01,440
she didn't have any identification that

319
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:04,320
could have been an ebe too you know yes

320
00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:05,360
yeah

321
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:09,040
i i'm guessing i'm just guessing

322
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,480
yeah yeah so um you know the one case

323
00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:14,480
that you hear often hear about it in

324
00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:16,480
pennsylvania

325
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:18,800
you know with the kexpert yes i just

326
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:21,200
wanted you know for

327
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:22,800
uh like i said we do have a lot of new

328
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:24,959
listeners just in a nutshell

329
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:26,000
um

330
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,240
i i'm not i can't remember the exact

331
00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:30,320
year that this happened

332
00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:31,920
1965.

333
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:33,920
do you want to just do a quick nutshell

334
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:35,680
and i want to know your opinion of that

335
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:36,639
one

336
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:40,079
okay and uh this happened in 1965 i was

337
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:42,079
i was just a kid back then

338
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:44,160
and uh

339
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:46,160
i was living i lived in the pittsburgh

340
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:47,199
area

341
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:48,720
and one day

342
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:51,279
i'm taking making a long story short but

343
00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:52,959
i have a twin brother

344
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:54,560
and we were

345
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:56,320
sitting in the car

346
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:59,279
it was a 1965 chevy impala if you can

347
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:00,720
imagine that

348
00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:03,040
so we were sitting in the car and on the

349
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:04,880
over the radio was we were listening to

350
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:08,160
kdka and a message came over that uh

351
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:10,880
a ufo flying saucer or no it wasn't a

352
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:13,279
flying saucer they just said a ufo had

353
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:16,000
been cited outside of greensburg in

354
00:14:20,790 --> 00:14:17,680
pennsylvania

355
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,800
and so we drove home right away and

356
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:22,480
asked our parents if we could drive out

357
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:24,720
there which that was about 50 miles away

358
00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:26,639
from where we lived and they said no way

359
00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:29,040
not the way you two drive

360
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:29,760
so

361
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:32,079
we just i just heard the whole case

362
00:14:38,389 --> 00:14:36,480
unfold on the kdka radio and on kdka

363
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:38,399
television when it came on the news that

364
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,120
night so that's how i was exposed to it

365
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:44,079
and then later on uh being a member of

366
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:47,680
pasa that was kind of like their

367
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:51,440
uh their baby you know that was the uh

368
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:54,320
ufo incident that they had a kind of a

369
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:57,760
select group that was investigating that

370
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:00,800
so i i just through osmosis basically i

371
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:03,040
learned things about that kecksburg

372
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:06,160
incident that in 1987

373
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:08,480
during the conference it was done in

374
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:11,279
coordination with mufon and pasa that's

375
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:13,600
when the first witnesses came up

376
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:16,320
and i think i was the possibly the only

377
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:18,639
ufo

378
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:21,199
field investigator i was possibly the

379
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:23,199
first one to hear witnesses talk about

380
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:25,360
the kickstart case but that was like you

381
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:27,199
know what 13

382
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:30,880
years or no what 20 what 65 to

383
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:34,240
this was 87 so 20 25

384
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:37,440
22 years later yeah

385
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:39,519
and yeah that's an interesting case you

386
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:41,040
know

387
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:42,320
there

388
00:15:45,269 --> 00:15:43,920
it seems like a little bit of feedback i

389
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:45,279
can't really do much on this end about

390
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:46,800
it maybe you may want to turn your

391
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:48,800
volume down a little bit

392
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:51,600
i i don't know that i can but okay we'll

393
00:15:55,590 --> 00:15:53,920
just go with it i'll move

394
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:55,600
i'm going to mute your mic while i talk

395
00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:56,720
okay

396
00:16:01,990 --> 00:15:59,680
so um

397
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:02,000
we had i think it was john ventry

398
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:04,000
controversial figure as you know

399
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:07,120
probably um had an idea that kecksburg

400
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,399
was a

401
00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:10,320
satellite and

402
00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:12,000
he had some pretty compelling evidence i

403
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:13,279
had him on

404
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:16,240
basically sort of debating stan gordon

405
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,839
about about the whole thing because it

406
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:19,199
didn't quite fit there was a lot of

407
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:22,000
things that didn't quite fit so uh i'll

408
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:23,519
unmute your mic here and ask you what's

409
00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:26,720
your opinion of his theory

410
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:28,880
yes in fact uh

411
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:31,360
john and i talked and uh there was a

412
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:33,120
another person that john was working

413
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:34,320
with

414
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:36,959
oh i can't i i know

415
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,880
owen

416
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:40,240
yeah any

417
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:41,360
uh

418
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:42,560
i can't i

419
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:44,160
i can't think of his name right now but

420
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:47,199
but uh they were both working on that

421
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:50,320
and that was the uh what was it the mark

422
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:52,720
ii or something that they they said that

423
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:54,079
it was

424
00:16:58,710 --> 00:16:56,240
and they did some research on it and i

425
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,720
was in contact with i think his name was

426
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:01,040
owen because i was doing research at the

427
00:17:04,789 --> 00:17:02,639
same time

428
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:04,799
on the kecksberg case

429
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:07,600
and i i told him you know

430
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:10,559
the the object that they say

431
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:12,000
landed there

432
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:14,000
it didn't look anything at all like what

433
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:16,720
the witnesses described

434
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:20,880
and uh i had actually i had i had spoken

435
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:23,439
with four witnesses who saw the

436
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:24,720
kicksburg

437
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:28,000
object come in for a relatively soft

438
00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:29,039
landing

439
00:17:33,430 --> 00:17:31,360
they they were they they see they had

440
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:33,440
seen it in the sky

441
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:35,200
they had certain seen it they had

442
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:37,520
watched it sorry they had watched it

443
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:39,679
change directions and so forth right it

444
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:42,559
was in the sky so they knew it wasn't a

445
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:45,200
a meteor or anything like that

446
00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:47,039
but what the uh

447
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:48,880
witnesses described that day that they

448
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:51,360
saw on the ground was this uh it was an

449
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:54,320
acorn-shaped gold object

450
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:56,080
with some strange writing around the

451
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:57,200
base

452
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:00,000
and that's what the witnesses described

453
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:02,160
and then i so i started researching and

454
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:04,240
i found out you know there was a

455
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:07,280
satellite uh a corona satellite that was

456
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:10,480
launched from california that same

457
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:12,320
morning

458
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:16,320
and then it had an ob a uh a um

459
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:18,799
it was a it was a type of a spy

460
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:22,080
satellite inside and that the container

461
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:24,640
it was called a film bucket that this

462
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:27,600
the satellite was in

463
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:29,200
matched the description of what the

464
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:31,280
witnesses saw to a t

465
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:33,760
and i you know i traced

466
00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:35,280
traced it and found out why they would

467
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,520
have done it and took me you know

468
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:39,840
a couple of years to figure it out it it

469
00:18:44,870 --> 00:18:42,960
it was not that uh

470
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:44,880
satellite that they claimed it was and

471
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:47,360
in fact i talked to owen later and with

472
00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:49,440
all the information that i had plus i

473
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:51,039
had additional information that they

474
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:52,320
didn't have

475
00:18:58,470 --> 00:18:54,799
he said yum mine was the bet he agreed

476
00:19:01,909 --> 00:18:58,480
that mine was the better solution to it

477
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:01,919
so you think that's what that was so

478
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:03,760
you actually think that's just do you

479
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:05,679
feel comfortable that that mystery is

480
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,640
solved

481
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:08,640
yes

482
00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:10,640
and and so here it goes back to the

483
00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:11,679
myths

484
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:15,039
and

485
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:17,200
how that carries on through

486
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:19,679
generations or potentially can

487
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:22,320
and really all you can do is get your

488
00:19:26,789 --> 00:19:24,480
side of this the story out there i just

489
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:26,799
want to pop this up on the screen uh you

490
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:29,440
know this person is saying hi to you

491
00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:32,320
oh that's my niece your niece is saying

492
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:34,960
hi tammy yes i

493
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:37,280
told her about this evening so all right

494
00:19:41,830 --> 00:19:38,720
excellent that's fine

495
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:41,840
fun stuff what's up um so yes that was

496
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:44,400
keksburg someone wrote up in the

497
00:19:48,669 --> 00:19:47,120
in the uh that it was uh december

498
00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:48,679
ninth 19th

499
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:51,679
1965 oh

500
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:54,160
i think yeah i'm pretty sure i was 65.

501
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:55,600
all right well

502
00:19:58,950 --> 00:19:58,160
uh interesting and what is what are some

503
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,960
other

504
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:00,480
just since we're on the subject of

505
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:01,919
pennsylvania

506
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:03,760
what would you consider

507
00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:04,559
like

508
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:08,320
besides kecksberg is that really the

509
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:09,600
the best

510
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:11,760
known ufo sighting is there any other

511
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:13,760
extraordinary sightings that you can

512
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:20,390
as far as ufos are concerned

513
00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:22,799
that's about it

514
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:23,679
now

515
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:28,480
we would meet once a month

516
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:30,720
and talk about other sightings

517
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:32,799
there were quite a few sightings in

518
00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:35,360
pennsylvania

519
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:38,240
and i i had one myself in 1989 it was a

520
00:20:42,149 --> 00:20:39,679
close encounter

521
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:42,159
that was you know i have no idea what

522
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:44,080
that was but

523
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:45,760
there

524
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:50,559
sightings in pennsylvania it was rated

525
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:52,799
fairly high

526
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:54,880
in in the you know as far as sightings

527
00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:56,640
goes back in the years that i lived

528
00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:02,789
but uh

529
00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:04,400
there were there was a place called the

530
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:06,400
chestnut ridge

531
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:07,520
right

532
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:09,280
in pennsylvania

533
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:12,640
and there were all kinds of strange

534
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:13,600
events

535
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:15,520
that happened

536
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:17,600
along that ridge

537
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:20,159
including the the object that i saw in

538
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:21,919
1989

539
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:23,039
uh

540
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:25,840
that had been seen in different spots

541
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:28,000
other than where i saw it in evansburg

542
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:30,960
pennsylvania and it i drew a straight

543
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:32,880
line one time from all the there were

544
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:35,520
three places that that object was seen

545
00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:37,919
and it came out to be a you know

546
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:41,520
right along the uh chestnut ridge

547
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:43,200
yeah i remember

548
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:46,400
that um stan talked about the chestnut

549
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:47,280
ridge

550
00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:49,840
um quite a bit and but i do want to hear

551
00:21:54,549 --> 00:21:52,000
since you just brought it up

552
00:21:56,830 --> 00:21:54,559
i do want to hear what your ufo sighting

553
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:56,840
your encounter was

554
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:00,400
okay i hope i can remember all of this

555
00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:04,480
uh okay this happened in 1989

556
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:05,919
and i'll probably try to put it a little

557
00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:08,480
bit in perspective

558
00:22:14,149 --> 00:22:10,960
back then i know you're an artist and i

559
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,159
i was always involved in the arts

560
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:16,720
and i really think that some that kind

561
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:18,960
of those kind of skills that artists

562
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:22,880
have are important in dealing with

563
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,440
uap slash ufos i really do and that's

564
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:27,200
that's part of like my recent work what

565
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:28,320
that's about

566
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:32,000
but in 1989 i was part of a

567
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:34,400
uh an arts festival and it was i was the

568
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:36,000
chairman of the performing arts

569
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:37,200
committee

570
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:40,880
and i was to go out and audition bands

571
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:42,640
for the arts festival that happened

572
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:45,120
every year in the arts festival the arts

573
00:22:48,149 --> 00:22:46,240
festival

574
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,159
happened in blair

575
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:50,799
county pennsylvania every year

576
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:53,039
so it was my job to go out and audition

577
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:56,000
bands and then if they performed well i

578
00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:58,000
would sign a contract with them for

579
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:59,919
their performance at the arts festival

580
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:02,159
so i was heading out for

581
00:23:07,590 --> 00:23:05,280
uh to audition a band one night it was

582
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:07,600
in june i don't have the paper in front

583
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:14,710
and uh

584
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:17,600
what was happening was i uh i lived at

585
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:20,640
the base of the blue knob ski resort in

586
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:23,039
a you know like a a development a

587
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:25,120
housing development the base of the skin

588
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:27,520
the blue knob ski resort

589
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:30,240
and uh my neighbor and i were going to

590
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:31,200
just

591
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:35,760
out to this uh it was a little like road

592
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:38,960
club in ebbingsburg pennsylvania

593
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,880
we were going to drive out there i was

594
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:42,720
going to audition the band and we're

595
00:23:46,390 --> 00:23:44,320
going to drive back to the housing

596
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:46,400
development

597
00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:48,480
and that's all i was going to do so and

598
00:23:52,149 --> 00:23:50,320
she was just going to go up with me to

599
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:52,159
to kill time

600
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:53,520
and uh

601
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:56,480
so we and that that time i had a car an

602
00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:58,400
automobile known as a

603
00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:00,080
a volkswagen

604
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:02,400
sriracha oh yes and

605
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:06,720
that car had a moon roof on it

606
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,240
and so

607
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:10,640
we drove up there it was a really pretty

608
00:24:14,710 --> 00:24:12,240
warm night

609
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,720
and i had the moon roof open and we

610
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:16,799
drove up it was a mountainous four-lane

611
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:17,679
road

612
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,919
so we drove up we found this little bar

613
00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:23,440
and the group groups we'll call them

614
00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:25,039
uptown larry

615
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:27,840
and well that's what's his name but uh

616
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:31,200
so we drove up and auditioned the group

617
00:24:36,149 --> 00:24:33,520
and on the way back we're driving back

618
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:36,159
in this four-lane highway and i'm

619
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:38,720
driving my car and i'm trying to talk to

620
00:24:42,710 --> 00:24:40,960
her she's sitting next to me

621
00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:42,720
and i'm trying to tell her we're talking

622
00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:44,960
about the performance of the band that

623
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:47,520
night when all of a sudden i was looking

624
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:50,480
out over her to my right and i saw

625
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:53,919
something start to move outside of the

626
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:55,279
car's

627
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:57,679
passenger side windshield

628
00:25:02,149 --> 00:25:00,559
on her side and i i kept trying to talk

629
00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:02,159
with her and look back to the road and i

630
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:03,600
kept looking over

631
00:25:06,549 --> 00:25:04,720
and

632
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,559
there was a guard rail there was a four

633
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:08,559
lane high room with a guardrail and i

634
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:11,679
saw something that was on the ground

635
00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:14,559
behind the guardrail near the bottom of

636
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:16,320
a big tree

637
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:17,840
and i could see something it looked like

638
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:19,200
it was black

639
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:22,159
and it was moving

640
00:25:25,590 --> 00:25:24,880
and i i didn't know what it was

641
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,600
so

642
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:27,200
as we started getting closer to it it

643
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,039
was about 30 yards away at that point

644
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:33,520
i started noticing you know that

645
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:35,200
whatever this thing was it started

646
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:37,120
rising up

647
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:40,159
from behind the guardrail

648
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:42,640
so it started it was started coming up

649
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:45,200
further and further up to under the

650
00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:46,799
branches of the tree that was behind the

651
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:49,200
guardrail and as it was rising up you

652
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:52,240
went from a black color to a dark gray

653
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:53,919
color to like a

654
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:56,240
to like an urban camouflage color that

655
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:58,080
was gray and white and black and then

656
00:26:01,750 --> 00:25:59,600
when it got up to right underneath the

657
00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:01,760
branches of the tree it was kind of like

658
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:04,400
an opaque white color

659
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:06,080
and i thought that first of all you know

660
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:08,320
this might be a great big bird but what

661
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:10,080
is a bird doing out this time of night

662
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:13,120
maybe maybe it was like a snowy owl

663
00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:16,320
but what's a snowy aisle doing down here

664
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,360
so anyhow this object is now hovering

665
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:22,320
under the branches of this tree

666
00:26:27,909 --> 00:26:24,880
and it turns like a translucent gray

667
00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:27,919
color and then my mind starts focusing

668
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:31,520
on it like i notice that it's flying but

669
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:34,559
it's not flapping its wings

670
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:37,200
and i notice that it doesn't have any

671
00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:38,400
feathers

672
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:40,880
it's just like a smooth skin

673
00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:42,640
on this object

674
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:44,720
so then it's and again i'm cutting this

675
00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:46,640
whole story a little bit short but it

676
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:48,320
comes floating out from underneath the

677
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:50,799
branches of that tree and it's getting

678
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:53,919
closer to the road that i'm traveling on

679
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:57,840
and as it gets closer to me

680
00:27:02,230 --> 00:26:59,440
it turns

681
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:02,240
colors actually i put my high beams on i

682
00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:04,320
clicked my high beams on so i could see

683
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:06,720
it better and when i did this thing

684
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,520
turned a color that was like a

685
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:12,320
a fluorescent green watch style for a

686
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,279
wristwatch the thing turns his totally

687
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:17,360
fluorescent green color

688
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:19,600
and when i turned on the lights and it

689
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:22,159
started flying over me i got a look

690
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:25,520
underneath and it wasn't a bird at all

691
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,520
it looked more like a manta ray but

692
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:29,360
there were no feet underneath there was

693
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:31,840
no beak there was no openings for the

694
00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:34,640
neck or the or the wings

695
00:27:40,149 --> 00:27:37,039
so it looked like it was like a smooth

696
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:40,159
translucent color that was glowing green

697
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:43,600
and it came and it dive bombed my car

698
00:27:46,389 --> 00:27:45,120
and when it did

699
00:27:51,669 --> 00:27:46,399
the whole car

700
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:51,679
turned that fluorescent green inside

701
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:54,159
and then it dipped and it almost hit the

702
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:56,320
the pavement

703
00:28:02,070 --> 00:27:58,799
and then it took off like hundreds of

704
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:02,080
miles an hour and it flew off you know

705
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,399
up in the sky and it left like a trace

706
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:06,240
like a tracer bullet would leave in the

707
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:07,200
sky

708
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:08,799
and it took about

709
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:10,720
that whole thing probably lasted less

710
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:12,640
than two minutes

711
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:14,080
well two minutes is actually quite a

712
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:15,600
long time when something like that's

713
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:16,799
happening

714
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:17,840
yeah

715
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:21,600
watching it because it i didn't know

716
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:23,760
what it was it was behind the guardrail

717
00:28:29,110 --> 00:28:26,480
and then it just flew up and did that

718
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:29,120
but that wasn't the strangest part

719
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,559
of the event uh my friend and i we when

720
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:34,480
we that happened we both looked at each

721
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:37,120
other like what was that you know

722
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:39,520
and once we looked at each other like in

723
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:41,919
unison on cue

724
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:44,640
we both started to hyperventilate

725
00:28:51,029 --> 00:28:47,840
really yeah really fast okay and that's

726
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:51,039
the white circle we're both like going

727
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:53,760
and i it got so bad

728
00:28:58,149 --> 00:28:56,320
that i had to pull off the road

729
00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:58,159
you know so i pulled off the road you

730
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,559
know and it was like the the shoulder of

731
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:02,480
the road had just gravel on it and you

732
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:04,080
could hear the rocks hitting up

733
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:05,760
underneath the car and everything and

734
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:08,559
then we both got out of the car

735
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,880
and i put my hands on my knees and i

736
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:12,480
finally got my breath

737
00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:14,480
and then i just looked at her and i said

738
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:16,640
i've got to report this

739
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,480
so we got back in the car and i drove

740
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,320
back to where we lived and she went to

741
00:29:24,789 --> 00:29:22,399
her house and i went in and i reported

742
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:24,799
it to the i think it was the

743
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:27,600
paso had a hotline

744
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:29,679
so i reported that that it was probably

745
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:32,640
that around oh close to one o'clock in

746
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:34,720
the morning that time

747
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:35,919
after that

748
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,480
so i reported it and a little later i

749
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:40,799
got a call back from the hotline

750
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:42,240
you know because i told them how the

751
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:45,039
whole inside of the car turned green

752
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:46,799
and they said well maybe you should get

753
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:49,440
the tested at the hospital to see if you

754
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,000
have uh excess radiation because some of

755
00:29:57,990 --> 00:29:54,240
the things that we've been investigating

756
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,000
with ufos like that people have been

757
00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:59,840
dosed with radiation

758
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:00,640
so

759
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:02,960
i made an appointment later on and got

760
00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:05,360
the test the hospital but they didn't

761
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:06,840
find any excess

762
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:09,760
radiation now you hyperventilated you

763
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:13,039
both did would you say that you were

764
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:16,399
that there was real fear involved or

765
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:17,600
how did you

766
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,520
what was going through the feelings when

767
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:21,600
you were seeing this thing not there was

768
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:24,000
no fear i mean it happened

769
00:30:27,029 --> 00:30:25,679
neither one of us expected that to

770
00:30:28,789 --> 00:30:27,039
happen

771
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:28,799
but uh now

772
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:30,960
neither one at least for me i could say

773
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:32,559
there was no fear because it happened

774
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:35,200
too fast and i was too amazed at this

775
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:38,240
thing flying over my car

776
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:40,240
to take it in and i didn't expect to

777
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:42,799
start hyperventilating it just happened

778
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:44,960
automatically

779
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:46,960
and then that's when at the time you

780
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:48,880
know i had been doing some research with

781
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:52,399
penn state on aesthetic experiences and

782
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,080
really what i had

783
00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:56,640
was an extremely intense aesthetic

784
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:58,880
experience is what we had had from

785
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:00,320
seeing that

786
00:31:05,509 --> 00:31:04,000
stimulating object fly over us and

787
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:05,519
that's that's i mean it was i could

788
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:07,360
still remember like it happened

789
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:09,120
yesterday

790
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:12,720
that is uh that is a very unique

791
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:15,120
sighting to say the least you know yes

792
00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:18,320
and and i actually like those better

793
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:20,480
than the typical ones like i had you

794
00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:22,640
know the saucer shape or whatever i mean

795
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:25,039
it's just so unusual yeah well this

796
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:27,440
actually this same object okay then that

797
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:29,760
was in june so i went to the pass on

798
00:31:33,669 --> 00:31:30,840
meeting in

799
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:33,679
july and passover put out like he put

800
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:35,440
they put out like a newsletter every

801
00:31:39,509 --> 00:31:37,519
other month i think it was

802
00:31:42,549 --> 00:31:39,519
and and stan said to me i've got to show

803
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:42,559
you something and here that same object

804
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:44,000
was reported

805
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:44,960
in

806
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:47,039
uh may

807
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,269
hello

808
00:31:59,430 --> 00:31:57,360
i'm sorry the same one

809
00:32:02,630 --> 00:31:59,440
yes except it was on the ground and it

810
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:02,640
was glowing on the ground the same color

811
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:05,200
and all the area around like it was near

812
00:32:09,269 --> 00:32:07,200
one of those uh

813
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,279
rural mailboxes

814
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:11,760
and that whole that whole mailbox and

815
00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:15,600
everything was that same green color

816
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:16,880
and then

817
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:20,320
in 2004 i think it was

818
00:32:24,310 --> 00:32:22,000
the same object was seen in west

819
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:24,320
virginia

820
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:27,120
same exact object except it was gray and

821
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:28,880
not green it was still

822
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:31,200
in the gray phase

823
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:37,750
yeah i mean your

824
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:39,600
your best guess

825
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:41,600
of what the heck i you know i i always

826
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:43,120
tell people i don't know what they are

827
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:45,039
you know whether extraterrestrial

828
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:48,159
interdimensional time travel you name it

829
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:50,159
what's your best guess on what you were

830
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:51,600
looking at

831
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:54,559
if if i'd see that to if i would have if

832
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:56,720
i'd see that today

833
00:33:01,750 --> 00:32:58,399
i'd probably say it was some type of

834
00:33:08,230 --> 00:33:04,789
just because it it looked like

835
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:08,240
a drunk it looked like a a manta ray

836
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:10,000
but it was you know it wasn't it wasn't

837
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:12,159
flexible it wasn't moving

838
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:14,159
like you know it's wings weren't

839
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:17,039
flexible but you the thing is what got

840
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:20,000
me was how my brain was working on it

841
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:22,000
and it was working on me

842
00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:23,600
and then the the whole aesthetic

843
00:33:26,549 --> 00:33:24,559
experience

844
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:26,559
like i've been have had a lot as a

845
00:33:32,070 --> 00:33:29,919
musician and artist i've had a lot of ex

846
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:32,080
aesthetic experiences

847
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:34,559
that was the strongest one i've ever had

848
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:37,039
in my life and it's stuck with me ever

849
00:33:43,509 --> 00:33:41,440
since wow wow that is quite amazing um i

850
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:43,519
just wanted to uh mention this because

851
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:46,240
not everybody knows this but uh tomorrow

852
00:33:50,950 --> 00:33:49,200
we have a 90 year old gentleman william

853
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:50,960
shatner can you believe it i mean he

854
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:53,279
well there's no way he looks 90 there

855
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:55,679
he's going to be up in uh blue horizon

856
00:34:01,830 --> 00:33:58,960
he's going to uh be going hitting space

857
00:34:03,669 --> 00:34:01,840
and i just saw this oh my god uh at 90

858
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:03,679
years old and i just saw this i love

859
00:34:06,950 --> 00:34:05,360
this right here

860
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:06,960
and that is uh we should all dress like

861
00:34:12,389 --> 00:34:10,399
this when william shatner returns

862
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:12,399
those of you that are

863
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:15,119
only on audio that is uh plant a planet

864
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:18,000
of the apes costume i thought that was

865
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:21,119
super funny but uh but good for him i

866
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:23,679
mean yes you know

867
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:26,079
um at 90 years old

868
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:28,159
why not try something that's really

869
00:34:31,589 --> 00:34:30,240
dangerous right

870
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:31,599
you know why not

871
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:34,159
yeah i mean he's got more more energy i

872
00:34:39,589 --> 00:34:37,200
had someone on that portrayed him in a

873
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:39,599
continuing series of star trek he got to

874
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:41,520
meet him and hang out with him and this

875
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:43,760
was let's say 10 15 years ago and he

876
00:34:47,909 --> 00:34:45,760
said i didn't have the energy that

877
00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:47,919
william shatner had and this was a young

878
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:49,839
guy in his like 40s

879
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,399
so yeah good for him rode a motorcycle

880
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:54,079
across country and mostly cross country

881
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:55,520
in his 80s really

882
00:35:02,790 --> 00:34:59,839
yeah wow god just keeps going so um what

883
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:02,800
now let's get back into this and i mean

884
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:04,320
that was an incredible encounter thank

885
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:06,480
you for sharing that sure

886
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:09,280
and also looking in to see you know i do

887
00:35:13,990 --> 00:35:11,200
remember someone talking about our manta

888
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:14,000
ray type craft but i don't remember any

889
00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:16,720
of the details of it um but so it's not

890
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:18,560
completely unheard of

891
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:19,440
and

892
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:24,240
lot about i mean i had a i sat next to

893
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:26,480
an american airlines

894
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:28,960
pilot who when he was a fighter pilot

895
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:31,440
years uh years ago in the military he

896
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:32,960
had a green orb

897
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:34,640
come up behind him and light up his

898
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:36,720
whole cockpit and follow him for miles

899
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:38,880
and miles and miles green is another one

900
00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:41,359
of those strange things you hear about

901
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:43,119
you know the green orb and just the

902
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:44,400
green color

903
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:48,320
which is bizarre another bizarre twist

904
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:50,880
but um so let's talk about

905
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,920
um why you contacted me that what got

906
00:35:56,829 --> 00:35:55,760
you excited about

907
00:35:59,430 --> 00:35:56,839
current events

908
00:36:02,230 --> 00:35:59,440
etc well uh

909
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:02,240
i'm not quite as old as william shatner

910
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:03,599
is yet

911
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:04,880
but uh

912
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:07,680
there are some really exciting things

913
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:10,000
going on right now

914
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:11,040
uh

915
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:14,000
that's in the uap

916
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,720
let's say uh

917
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:18,880
the whole you know the whole area of

918
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:21,280
uaps what's happening right now i find

919
00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:23,359
extremely exciting

920
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:24,160
uh

921
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:26,960
not only because of my background

922
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:30,400
but also because uh i have had a career

923
00:36:36,550 --> 00:36:33,200
in education like i said for you know 40

924
00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:36,560
40 some years involved in education

925
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:39,200
and the some of the research that i've

926
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,000
done i'm a very serious researcher i'm

927
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,560
very aggressive and i try to look for

928
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:46,960
evidence and i'm i consider myself a

929
00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:49,680
scientist like i started out as a

930
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:52,560
musician out of need and an artist out

931
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:53,599
of need

932
00:36:58,230 --> 00:36:55,920
but i'm a scientist

933
00:37:01,109 --> 00:36:58,240
you know i'm sorry i was a musician out

934
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:01,119
of nature but i'm now a scientist out of

935
00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:03,839
need i i just need to

936
00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:05,599
investigate those things

937
00:37:09,030 --> 00:37:07,599
but what was happening

938
00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:09,040
is that

939
00:37:12,770 --> 00:37:12,320
recently starting back in

940
00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:12,780
june

941
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:14,240
[Music]

942
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:16,400
there are three events

943
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:18,880
that really got my attention you mind if

944
00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:20,560
i i wrote this down is that okay if i

945
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:22,240
read those to you

946
00:37:29,510 --> 00:37:28,390
and

947
00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:29,520
i think

948
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:31,680
basically the whole

949
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:35,520
idea of study studying uap

950
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:38,720
has finally turned the corner

951
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:44,790
more of a scientific approach to

952
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:48,240
studying uap and that's going to be a a

953
00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:51,359
big jump i think for some people

954
00:37:55,990 --> 00:37:55,040
and what got me thinking this

955
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:56,000
is that

956
00:38:00,870 --> 00:37:58,400
first of all science describes a body of

957
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:00,880
information that's usually that's gained

958
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:03,440
through curiosity so anybody that's

959
00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:06,240
still curious about things are is going

960
00:38:11,349 --> 00:38:09,440
to have to get involved in science

961
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:11,359
but without evidence like you were

962
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:14,079
saying earlier there is no science so

963
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:15,680
all of all of this has got to be

964
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:19,839
scientific in nature but on june 25th

965
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:22,000
2021 that's when the

966
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:24,000
the office of the director of national

967
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:26,560
intelligence that report

968
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:28,400
that nine page report

969
00:38:34,390 --> 00:38:31,119
on unidentified aerial phenomena that's

970
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:34,400
when it was released by the pentagon

971
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:37,760
and it was only a nine page report

972
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:41,440
but i started seeing some evidence that

973
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:43,920
the government was admitting there's a

974
00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:46,400
category a catch-all category of things

975
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:50,480
out there that they don't understand

976
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:51,359
and

977
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:53,200
personally over my years in my

978
00:38:59,109 --> 00:38:56,160
experience in my scientific research

979
00:39:01,990 --> 00:38:59,119
i'm finding that uaps

980
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:02,000
are very complex

981
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:04,800
they're very comprehensive they're very

982
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:07,760
complex phenomenon they're not just

983
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:10,480
things that fly in the sky

984
00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:12,320
so

985
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:14,640
right after that release of that report

986
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:16,640
there were members of the scientific

987
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:19,680
community that began to propose like

988
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:22,800
scientifically taking a look for protect

989
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:25,440
uh for evidence of extraterrestrial

990
00:39:29,190 --> 00:39:26,720
intelligence

991
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:29,200
and that was you know the first time

992
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:30,960
that i recall really the first

993
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:33,359
scientists were starting to get on the

994
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:36,240
bandwagon and wagon and asking for uh

995
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:37,920
research to be done

996
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:39,920
so then

997
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:42,720
that that happened on july or june 25th

998
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:47,359
on july 26 the same year 2021

999
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:49,760
that's when

1000
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:52,560
harvard university announced

1001
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:55,440
the galileo project

1002
00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:01,040
time was being headed up by avi loeb and

1003
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:03,680
there was another co-founder i think his

1004
00:40:07,349 --> 00:40:05,280
name was uh

1005
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:07,359
frank

1006
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:09,040
i can't think of his last name like

1007
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:13,200
right now but um anyhow

1008
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:14,880
they claimed that

1009
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,400
on a through a

1010
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:18,560
youtube video they claimed that

1011
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:20,240
harvard was going to start looking for

1012
00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:22,960
evidence for extraterrestrial

1013
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:25,920
technological civilizations

1014
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:27,119
so

1015
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:28,800
that was a project that they were

1016
00:40:33,190 --> 00:40:30,079
kicking off

1017
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:33,200
and that was in july 26th then i don't

1018
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:35,040
know many people don't know about this

1019
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:38,480
but on september 4th i got a letter from

1020
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:39,599
penn state

1021
00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:42,319
and that's my alma mater

1022
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:45,040
but they were starting to uh

1023
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:46,960
penn state was becoming part of a

1024
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:49,440
consortium that was going to start

1025
00:40:54,630 --> 00:40:50,960
looking for

1026
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,640
answers about whether life exists beyond

1027
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:56,400
earth

1028
00:41:02,710 --> 00:40:59,599
and so here's two top universities

1029
00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:02,720
uh the i think in my opinion the one in

1030
00:41:07,829 --> 00:41:03,839
penn state

1031
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:07,839
little more interesting than the one at

1032
00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:08,880
harvard

1033
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:11,440
because at penn state they've got like a

1034
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:14,319
consortium of about 30

1035
00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:16,560
institutions research institutions that

1036
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:18,880
they're going to use to start looking

1037
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:19,680
for

1038
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:22,079
extraterrestrial life

1039
00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:24,240
once the

1040
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:27,040
the ls stc

1041
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:32,870
telescope is starting that in two years

1042
00:41:38,069 --> 00:41:35,760
that should be open it's the uh

1043
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:38,079
i for i'm sorry i'm the getting a blank

1044
00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:40,160
on the name of that telescope right now

1045
00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:43,200
michael observatory reuben observatory

1046
00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:44,960
so they're going to get all this ton of

1047
00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:46,480
information

1048
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:50,240
and uh they're going to start looking

1049
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:51,359
for

1050
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:52,880
evidence of

1051
00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:53,920
life

1052
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:54,640
in

1053
00:42:00,309 --> 00:41:56,800
beyond earth

1054
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:00,319
and uh and the penn state

1055
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:02,800
project has about seven million dollars

1056
00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:04,800
that's been donated already and they're

1057
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:07,280
working on this consortium and they're

1058
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:09,280
they're trying to get young people

1059
00:42:15,670 --> 00:42:12,480
involved uh in this consortium younger

1060
00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:15,680
early career researchers they call them

1061
00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:19,520
so those those ideas really got me

1062
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:20,720
uh

1063
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:22,319
you know thinking

1064
00:42:25,829 --> 00:42:23,920
well just to pause right here for a

1065
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:25,839
second because one of the uh people in

1066
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:27,359
chat made up

1067
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:29,200
made a good point what about the will

1068
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:31,200
the james webb

1069
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:32,160
uh

1070
00:42:37,030 --> 00:42:35,040
telescope play any part in this as well

1071
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:37,040
do you know i don't know if that it's

1072
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:38,160
probably

1073
00:42:42,309 --> 00:42:40,079
things have to be allocated so carefully

1074
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:42,319
because every minute they're being used

1075
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,640
is spoken for but i mean i just wondered

1076
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:46,079
if there that's any part of it that

1077
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:47,440
you're aware of

1078
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:49,920
i don't know no i've been in contact

1079
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:50,960
with

1080
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:53,200
avulobe and the uh

1081
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:55,040
the harvard

1082
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:59,040
project the the galileo project

1083
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:01,440
now as of yet i haven't seen any mention

1084
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:03,200
of that but there's not been a lot out

1085
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:06,560
there also uh i've been in contact with

1086
00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:09,839
individuals from the penn state project

1087
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:10,960
uh

1088
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:14,480
i haven't noticed that

1089
00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:16,800
telescope being mentioned

1090
00:43:20,550 --> 00:43:18,400
they're

1091
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:20,560
very concerned they want to get a lot of

1092
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:22,480
information in and then they're going to

1093
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:24,319
start looking at it

1094
00:43:28,309 --> 00:43:26,640
it's it's still very new yet because

1095
00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:28,319
everyone's writing me back and saying we

1096
00:43:32,309 --> 00:43:30,400
will contact you once we have more

1097
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:32,319
information they're still getting a lot

1098
00:43:36,069 --> 00:43:34,319
of these off the ground

1099
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:36,079
these projects

1100
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:40,710
this this has been the most exciting

1101
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:43,520
thing i've seen since i've been working

1102
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:46,240
with the uap field

1103
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:47,760
now the only other thing that i was

1104
00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:49,040
going to mention to you what what

1105
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:50,640
strikes me funny

1106
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:53,119
not really funny but unique

1107
00:43:58,630 --> 00:43:55,200
is that i

1108
00:44:02,390 --> 00:43:58,640
was involved in 2006

1109
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:02,400
i was involved with nasa

1110
00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:04,880
and they had a program back then it was

1111
00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:06,839
called the aries

1112
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:15,109
vision for the aries directorate

1113
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:18,960
was to find life beyond earth

1114
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:21,839
and their mission was to search for life

1115
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:24,480
throughout the universe

1116
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:26,560
so i was just thinking you know i

1117
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:28,319
thought it might be interesting to

1118
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:31,119
contrast what's going on now with what

1119
00:44:34,829 --> 00:44:34,079
happened back in 2006

1120
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:34,839
when

1121
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:37,040
nasa now i don't know how many people

1122
00:44:41,670 --> 00:44:38,800
knew that but nassau did have a

1123
00:44:43,390 --> 00:44:41,680
directorate to look for life on other

1124
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:43,400
planets back in

1125
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,760
2006. at least that's when i was

1126
00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:47,520
introduced to it

1127
00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:49,440
now would this be through some type of

1128
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:51,920
biological signature

1129
00:44:56,630 --> 00:44:54,000
um in an atmosphere or something like

1130
00:44:58,950 --> 00:44:56,640
that how how would they i mean on other

1131
00:45:01,510 --> 00:44:58,960
planets we could just barely

1132
00:45:04,630 --> 00:45:01,520
we can barely almost it's almost like a

1133
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:04,640
theory that these planets exist you know

1134
00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:08,319
by by this by the wobble of the the sun

1135
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:10,560
that star in particular star like that

1136
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:12,720
the gravitational pulls

1137
00:45:15,990 --> 00:45:14,560
and i'm just wondering

1138
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:16,000
um how

1139
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:16,880
would

1140
00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:20,800
anyone look out there back in 2006

1141
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:21,680
for

1142
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:24,560
life

1143
00:45:29,829 --> 00:45:27,040
well i i can get give you my story of

1144
00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:29,839
what happened yeah to me

1145
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:32,480
i mean i didn't find life but i i you

1146
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:33,599
know

1147
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:35,200
it was a character it's a very unique

1148
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:36,720
story that's why i thought it would

1149
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:39,839
coincide you with the uh recent current

1150
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:42,160
events that were happening

1151
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:43,440
but uh

1152
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:48,240
back in uh from 2005 to 2007

1153
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:49,680
i was

1154
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:51,680
working for working for

1155
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:53,119
the united states department of the

1156
00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:55,119
interior

1157
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:56,400
and

1158
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:57,680
i was

1159
00:46:02,470 --> 00:45:59,280
employed by

1160
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:02,480
the department of the interior to my job

1161
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:06,079
was to basically turn around all aspects

1162
00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:15,270
okay so that so that lasted from 2005

1163
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:17,760
to 2007.

1164
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:18,960
so

1165
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:21,440
i was uh

1166
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:23,839
i was living in a little place up on

1167
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:26,079
what was known as the eastern navajo

1168
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:27,359
agency

1169
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:30,480
and that place was called borrego

1170
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:33,760
pass new mexico

1171
00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:37,599
and it was in a desolate area of

1172
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:39,440
new mexico

1173
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:41,200
so i was i had an office there and i

1174
00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:43,520
lived in a little kind of like a village

1175
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:45,280
that they called a teacher ridge i was

1176
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:46,880
kind of like working there and being

1177
00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:49,200
like the mayor of this teacher age i was

1178
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:51,760
working for the government you know the

1179
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:53,280
federal department you know the united

1180
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:55,280
states department of education

1181
00:47:00,069 --> 00:46:57,839
and it's my job to turn the education

1182
00:47:02,390 --> 00:47:00,079
around from they had a

1183
00:47:04,150 --> 00:47:02,400
a type of education on the navajo

1184
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:04,160
reservation that was based in the

1185
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:05,760
western cultures

1186
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:07,280
and they found out that wasn't working

1187
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:10,720
so it was my job to turn around the

1188
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:12,720
education on the navajo

1189
00:47:17,829 --> 00:47:15,680
nation to be a navajo language and

1190
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:17,839
culture approach to education rather

1191
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:20,079
than a western culture approach

1192
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:22,079
so i was up there working at a little

1193
00:47:25,190 --> 00:47:23,280
office

1194
00:47:26,630 --> 00:47:25,200
and one day the phone rang

1195
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:26,640
and that was a good day because the

1196
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:28,160
phones were working

1197
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:30,079
so the the phone rang

1198
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:33,760
and the it was a call from washington dc

1199
00:47:37,109 --> 00:47:36,000
and on the other end of the line

1200
00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:37,119
was

1201
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:42,640
the same david axelrod is now working

1202
00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:44,559
for cnn

1203
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:47,040
and uh

1204
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:49,359
he said you know is this dr gross and so

1205
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:51,520
forth and i said yes and he went on to

1206
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:54,480
tell me that he was notifying me i

1207
00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:56,800
thought i was in trouble first of all

1208
00:48:00,470 --> 00:47:58,960
but he said he was notifying me that i

1209
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:00,480
had to attend

1210
00:48:06,870 --> 00:48:03,280
a he called it a summit meeting

1211
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:06,880
in texas it was in houston texas

1212
00:48:13,829 --> 00:48:09,119
and he said the summit meeting was going

1213
00:48:14,870 --> 00:48:13,839
to be held at the johnson space center

1214
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,880
and he

1215
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:16,640
that's all he would say

1216
00:48:22,549 --> 00:48:19,440
other than he said that i had to bring

1217
00:48:26,069 --> 00:48:22,559
two of my best and brightest navajo

1218
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:26,079
teachers two teachers that were navajo

1219
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:27,520
and that were teaching on the

1220
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:29,760
reservation i had to bring two of those

1221
00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:33,040
teachers with me down to this meeting

1222
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:35,440
at the johnson space center

1223
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:37,520
in houston texas

1224
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:40,160
and that was it other than you know he

1225
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:41,440
said that the government was going to

1226
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:45,040
pick up all of the expenses

1227
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:46,720
so

1228
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:49,200
again i'm shrinking the story up uh the

1229
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:51,760
day we were supposed to leave for

1230
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:54,480
the meeting this meetings to start we

1231
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:56,240
drove out from the reservation to the

1232
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:58,079
albuquerque airport and from the

1233
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:00,880
albuquerque we flew to houston and then

1234
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:02,720
at the airport

1235
00:49:06,870 --> 00:49:05,200
a uh a van picked us up and took us to

1236
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:06,880
our hotel

1237
00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:10,400
and we got out and went into the hotel

1238
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:12,880
and i found out that

1239
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:14,960
there were about i'd say between 20 and

1240
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:17,680
30 other people at that hotel

1241
00:49:21,990 --> 00:49:19,520
all of those people

1242
00:49:24,870 --> 00:49:22,000
were going to the same

1243
00:49:27,190 --> 00:49:24,880
summit meeting with us

1244
00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:27,200
at the johnson space center

1245
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:30,880
and none of us knew why we none of us

1246
00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:33,839
knew what that meeting was about

1247
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:35,599
none of us so

1248
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:38,400
the next morning we get up and i i think

1249
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:40,400
i'd estimate there was around 30 of us

1250
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:41,359
from different

1251
00:49:45,750 --> 00:49:43,920
i was representing than i'm not navajo

1252
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:45,760
but i was representing the navajo people

1253
00:49:50,069 --> 00:49:47,839
the navajo tribe i had brought two

1254
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:50,079
navajos with me other people were

1255
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:53,520
representing other tribes like the sioux

1256
00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:55,440
and the apache and so forth so there

1257
00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:56,960
were

1258
00:50:00,870 --> 00:49:58,720
several different tries being

1259
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:00,880
represented there at

1260
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:02,559
that hotel that was going to go out to

1261
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:05,040
the summit meeting with us

1262
00:50:09,430 --> 00:50:06,800
so anyhow the next morning it rained

1263
00:50:11,349 --> 00:50:09,440
really hard and it flooded in fact in

1264
00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:11,359
the parking

1265
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:13,920
lot where the hotel was there was water

1266
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:15,680
up to the windows

1267
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:19,040
in the cars you know so the we waited to

1268
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:20,880
the water to go down

1269
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:23,440
and then a uh a charter bus came and it

1270
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:25,680
picked us up all of us you know from

1271
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:27,440
that hotel everybody got out and we got

1272
00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:28,880
in the bus

1273
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:30,880
and there was a man from the johnson

1274
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:33,920
space center uh representing

1275
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:35,680
the johnson space center he was already

1276
00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:36,960
on the bus

1277
00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:38,319
so i said to him

1278
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:39,839
you know what's this meeting all about

1279
00:50:44,309 --> 00:50:41,680
because none of us knew and he said

1280
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:44,319
you'll find out when you get there

1281
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:45,359
so

1282
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:47,440
they drive us out to the

1283
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:49,920
johnson space center and they stop at

1284
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:50,880
the gate

1285
00:50:54,549 --> 00:50:53,040
and there's a man that comes out he was

1286
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:54,559
like in a little

1287
00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:56,400
guard house type of thing at the gate he

1288
00:50:59,349 --> 00:50:57,440
comes out

1289
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:59,359
and uh

1290
00:51:02,950 --> 00:51:01,520
he knocks on the bus door and he opens

1291
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:02,960
the bus driver opens up the door and he

1292
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:04,960
said i'm sorry we're closed to the

1293
00:51:09,349 --> 00:51:07,839
public until one

1294
00:51:10,470 --> 00:51:09,359
and i'm thinking what you know i thought

1295
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:10,480
first of all i thought was because of

1296
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:12,400
the rain they got flooded

1297
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:15,599
and and the guy on the bus representing

1298
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:21,430
you know this the space group said

1299
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:22,720
what wait a minute he said what's what's

1300
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:25,680
going on here and the guard says well

1301
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:27,200
there's going to be a group of people

1302
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:29,040
come up here very special people for a

1303
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:31,040
meeting and we're shutting down the

1304
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:32,240
space center because we don't want

1305
00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:34,079
anyone to know about what this meeting

1306
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:36,160
is about and the guy on the bus said

1307
00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:38,000
yeah this that's us we're that group of

1308
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:39,280
people

1309
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:42,160
so they finally they let us in to

1310
00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:44,240
the johnson space center

1311
00:51:48,870 --> 00:51:46,000
and we get off the bus and we go into

1312
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:48,880
this one building big building and there

1313
00:51:54,470 --> 00:51:52,400
is a uh a meeting room they take all of

1314
00:51:56,230 --> 00:51:54,480
us into the meeting room we sit down

1315
00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:56,240
we're the only people there

1316
00:52:01,829 --> 00:51:58,720
pretty soon about i'd say 12 to 15

1317
00:52:03,910 --> 00:52:01,839
people from nassau come in uh they were

1318
00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:03,920
administrators and scientists and so

1319
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:06,240
forth and some of them were wearing the

1320
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:08,240
the uh

1321
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:10,800
the nassau like lab coat with a badge on

1322
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:11,760
it

1323
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:13,839
so that's

1324
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:15,839
we get in there

1325
00:52:19,829 --> 00:52:17,920
and they they start giving us an

1326
00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:19,839
introduction as to why in the world

1327
00:52:23,829 --> 00:52:21,280
we're there because none of us none of

1328
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:23,839
us knew what this was all about and they

1329
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:26,160
started telling us that

1330
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:30,720
nasa is involved with a directorate

1331
00:52:35,349 --> 00:52:32,480
and the directorate is

1332
00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:35,359
called the aries directorate and it's an

1333
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:38,400
acronym it's spelled a-r-e-s

1334
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:40,800
it stands it stood for

1335
00:52:48,309 --> 00:52:43,119
astro materials

1336
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:48,319
research and exploration science a-r-e-s

1337
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:49,920
so that's the first

1338
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:52,640
we knew why we were there but i'm

1339
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:54,880
thinking why are you telling me you know

1340
00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:57,119
i'm working to turn around the education

1341
00:53:02,069 --> 00:52:58,880
on the navajo nation

1342
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:02,079
so then they go on to tell us that the

1343
00:53:06,230 --> 00:53:03,760
big plan

1344
00:53:08,950 --> 00:53:06,240
for nassau

1345
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,390
they're going to

1346
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:12,960
fly from the earth

1347
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:15,040
to the moon

1348
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:16,960
then they're going to fly from the moon

1349
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:18,400
to mars

1350
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:26,950
and now i had never heard of that before

1351
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:28,319
but that's what they were going to do

1352
00:53:32,069 --> 00:53:30,240
they were going to mine

1353
00:53:34,150 --> 00:53:32,079
mars

1354
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:34,160
and then they told us that the uh you

1355
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:35,760
know that they said the vision this

1356
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:36,880
aries

1357
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:38,960
program he said the vision for this

1358
00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:40,720
program is that

1359
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:43,920
nasa will eventually find life

1360
00:53:48,790 --> 00:53:46,079
beyond earth and he said our mission

1361
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:48,800
statement is to search for life

1362
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:51,839
throughout the universe

1363
00:53:57,190 --> 00:53:52,800
that

1364
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:57,200
quite amazing and

1365
00:54:01,990 --> 00:53:59,119
um did was when they were talking about

1366
00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:02,000
that did anyone bring up the now

1367
00:54:06,710 --> 00:54:03,599
we're going into break here in just one

1368
00:54:08,549 --> 00:54:06,720
minute but did anyone talk about the uh

1369
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:08,559
meteor that landed on earth that came

1370
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:11,200
from mars and there was uh there was a

1371
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:12,480
potential

1372
00:54:17,349 --> 00:54:14,640
um organism

1373
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:17,359
found and it wasn't quite cleared up and

1374
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:19,200
this is i want to say in the

1375
00:54:23,349 --> 00:54:21,119
80s or maybe the 90s do you remember

1376
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:23,359
what i'm talking about yes and that i

1377
00:54:28,790 --> 00:54:26,000
i'm i think that was in the 70s maybe

1378
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:28,800
even but uh yeah that i mean i i know

1379
00:54:32,309 --> 00:54:31,359
about that i mean they they finally did

1380
00:54:33,990 --> 00:54:32,319
find

1381
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:34,000
that there was some

1382
00:54:37,109 --> 00:54:35,200
uh

1383
00:54:39,430 --> 00:54:37,119
some type of um

1384
00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:39,440
remains that were from mars in that

1385
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:41,280
media

1386
00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:43,359
but we didn't talk about that then they

1387
00:54:46,549 --> 00:54:45,119
talked about something even

1388
00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:46,559
more bizarre

1389
00:54:48,789 --> 00:54:47,839
well you know

1390
00:54:52,230 --> 00:54:48,799
we want to

1391
00:54:54,789 --> 00:54:52,240
back from the break yeah let's we can

1392
00:54:56,789 --> 00:54:54,799
wait because we we had a we they they

1393
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:56,799
had us leave i'll talk about that after

1394
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:58,640
the break yeah we'll tease that for

1395
00:55:03,270 --> 00:55:00,559
after so right now we do have to go on

1396
00:55:07,109 --> 00:55:03,280
the break um so hang in there for those

1397
00:55:09,910 --> 00:55:07,119
of you over at kg r a radio um but for

1398
00:55:11,430 --> 00:55:09,920
those on youtube i talked to tom warner

1399
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,440
a few months ago and we're going to play

1400
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:13,520
that clip during the break hang in there

1401
00:55:24,390 --> 00:55:22,069
do you think they're here and what do

1402
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:24,400
you think they want

1403
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:25,839
you know that that's a very good

1404
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:28,000
question martin that they're here

1405
00:55:32,710 --> 00:55:30,240
because

1406
00:55:35,750 --> 00:55:32,720
i believe that they've always been here

1407
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:35,760
so we're kind of like an experiment and

1408
00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:37,839
we're like an experiment i think that's

1409
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:40,480
gone bad so the question is how do we

1410
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:41,839
manifest

1411
00:55:46,549 --> 00:55:43,440
what's out there

1412
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:46,559
do we manifest it as something good

1413
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:49,040
or we manifest is something bad

1414
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:52,000
do we manifest it for humanity to

1415
00:55:57,510 --> 00:55:55,599
to expand itself or destroy itself

1416
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:57,520
and that's that's the question to your

1417
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:58,480
question

1418
00:56:02,230 --> 00:55:59,680
and i

1419
00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:02,240
hope that you know all more people can

1420
00:56:05,670 --> 00:56:03,599
come together

1421
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:05,680
and figure this all out in a positive

1422
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:06,960
way

1423
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:08,000
do you

1424
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:09,839
think that if we started to blow

1425
00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:12,640
ourselves to smithereens no i think

1426
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:15,040
they're going to do it for us

1427
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:18,000
i really do i mean yeah look i mean i

1428
00:56:22,150 --> 00:56:20,400
was abducted they could have killed me

1429
00:56:23,190 --> 00:56:22,160
and any of these people that say they

1430
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:23,200
were abducted they could have been

1431
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:24,880
killed they could have been just

1432
00:56:29,349 --> 00:56:27,200
mutilated like the cow i believe that

1433
00:56:31,670 --> 00:56:29,359
there's good forces out there i believe

1434
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:31,680
there's not just one

1435
00:56:35,829 --> 00:56:34,000
there's many

1436
00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:35,839
my contacts that came with me were

1437
00:56:40,870 --> 00:56:37,040
positive

1438
00:56:43,829 --> 00:56:40,880
the universe no do i think there's all

1439
00:56:45,670 --> 00:56:43,839
good people on earth

1440
00:56:47,829 --> 00:56:45,680
well here's another question along those

1441
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:47,839
lines as far as you know

1442
00:56:51,510 --> 00:56:49,200
all the people

1443
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:51,520
that when the berkshire incident quote

1444
00:56:55,270 --> 00:56:53,440
unquote happened

1445
00:56:57,750 --> 00:56:55,280
do you think all the people have that

1446
00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:57,760
same thought that there it was more of a

1447
00:57:01,670 --> 00:56:59,520
positive instead of a negative or do you

1448
00:57:03,990 --> 00:57:01,680
think some people think there was a name

1449
00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:04,000
some people thought it was you know

1450
00:57:07,430 --> 00:57:05,280
it's how it's

1451
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:07,440
the problem with with these things is

1452
00:57:11,750 --> 00:57:09,440
people want

1453
00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:11,760
sometimes talk about things and make

1454
00:57:16,150 --> 00:57:13,920
them negative

1455
00:57:18,549 --> 00:57:16,160
but were they really negative

1456
00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:18,559
no one really got hurt

1457
00:57:22,470 --> 00:57:21,040
you know we were all put back

1458
00:57:25,030 --> 00:57:22,480
so i i

1459
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:25,040
to me it was positive

1460
00:57:28,950 --> 00:57:27,119
and and the lesson that came out of that

1461
00:57:31,030 --> 00:57:28,960
is the lesson that i'm trying to explain

1462
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:31,040
to humanity and that's that we have to

1463
00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:32,720
take care of each other

1464
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,400
and this plant because you're not

1465
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:36,559
getting off unless we take care of this

1466
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:38,240
plant it's that simple

1467
00:57:43,030 --> 00:57:40,720
yeah it's that simple yeah

1468
00:57:54,620 --> 00:57:43,040
well that wraps it up for our talk today

1469
00:57:54,630 --> 00:58:08,549
[Music]

1470
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:12,230
in three two one go

1471
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:14,079
all right welcome back

1472
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:17,520
and my guest tonight is

1473
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:20,319
uh dr robert gross and we're right in

1474
00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:23,119
the middle of an interesting discussion

1475
00:58:28,390 --> 00:58:27,040
about the goings-on and uh so to do

1476
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:28,400
please continue

1477
00:58:30,789 --> 00:58:29,200
to

1478
00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:30,799
go on with what happened

1479
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:32,400
so anyhow they had you know they had

1480
00:58:36,549 --> 00:58:34,400
told us about how they were how nasa was

1481
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:36,559
going to go from fly to the earth from

1482
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,559
the to the moon and then from the moon

1483
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:40,480
to mars and then they were going to

1484
00:58:44,549 --> 00:58:43,280
excavate or mine mars now i had never

1485
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,559
heard of that before i don't have you

1486
00:58:47,190 --> 00:58:46,319
ever heard of that

1487
00:58:52,630 --> 00:58:47,200
no

1488
00:58:54,309 --> 00:58:52,640
like the helium-3 excavating that on the

1489
00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:54,319
moon what you know the great energy

1490
00:58:59,430 --> 00:58:56,160
amount that could come out of that but i

1491
00:59:02,630 --> 00:58:59,440
never heard about mars excavation ever

1492
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:02,640
well there's more here it's i think it's

1493
00:59:06,710 --> 00:59:04,720
related to what you're talking about too

1494
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:06,720
so anyhow

1495
00:59:14,950 --> 00:59:12,710
they they took us out and they put us

1496
00:59:17,349 --> 00:59:14,960
back in the little buses because you

1497
00:59:19,670 --> 00:59:17,359
know that there was nobody at the space

1498
00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:19,680
center since they closed it for our

1499
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:20,640
meeting

1500
00:59:25,430 --> 00:59:23,440
so they took us out to a hangar

1501
00:59:27,910 --> 00:59:25,440
and

1502
00:59:29,270 --> 00:59:27,920
they showed us his vehicle it was part

1503
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:29,280
rocket

1504
00:59:34,309 --> 00:59:31,280
let's say it was it was a

1505
00:59:36,789 --> 00:59:34,319
it was a part like a plane slash rocket

1506
00:59:39,510 --> 00:59:36,799
slash glider

1507
00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:39,520
and they were already working on it

1508
00:59:43,990 --> 00:59:42,000
and it was going to

1509
00:59:45,670 --> 00:59:44,000
fly over mars

1510
00:59:48,950 --> 00:59:45,680
they were going to fly this over mars

1511
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,960
and survey it before they started

1512
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:50,400
excavating

1513
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:52,160
okay so then

1514
00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:54,079
they brought us back they put us in the

1515
00:59:58,230 --> 00:59:56,079
buses you know we got we got to see this

1516
01:00:02,069 --> 00:59:58,240
thing so knowing it was

1517
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:02,079
on schedule at the east at least in 2006

1518
01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:04,160
so then they they brought us back in the

1519
01:00:07,510 --> 01:00:05,200
buses

1520
01:00:09,270 --> 01:00:07,520
and they took us to the mission control

1521
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,280
center now i don't know if you've ever

1522
01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:11,280
been to the mission control center in

1523
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:12,400
houston

1524
01:00:14,789 --> 01:00:13,359
but

1525
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:14,799
there's a you know you know how they

1526
01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:16,640
have the big control room and it has all

1527
01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:19,839
the computer monitors yeah so we took us

1528
01:00:23,589 --> 01:00:21,359
into that room

1529
01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:23,599
and uh

1530
01:00:27,670 --> 01:00:25,920
the international space station was

1531
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:27,680
orbiting at that time

1532
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:28,880
so they

1533
01:00:32,710 --> 01:00:30,720
you know they just let us see what was

1534
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:32,720
going on then

1535
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:35,040
behind the uh

1536
01:00:41,430 --> 01:00:37,680
mission control center was like a peanut

1537
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:41,440
gallery there was this uh like a wall of

1538
01:00:46,390 --> 01:00:44,240
glass and then behind the wall of glass

1539
01:00:47,990 --> 01:00:46,400
was this peanut gallery you know with

1540
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:48,000
the high seats

1541
01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:48,880
and

1542
01:00:52,710 --> 01:00:50,559
it was a very nice peanut gallery you

1543
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:52,720
know it was more like a uh

1544
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:54,960
kind of a planetarium or a movie theater

1545
01:00:58,870 --> 01:00:56,880
it wasn't just bleachers

1546
01:01:01,109 --> 01:00:58,880
so they took us there all of us

1547
01:01:03,270 --> 01:01:01,119
representing the tribes

1548
01:01:06,789 --> 01:01:03,280
and

1549
01:01:09,270 --> 01:01:06,799
pretty soon about four astronauts came

1550
01:01:12,390 --> 01:01:09,280
out of one of the back rooms okay they

1551
01:01:14,390 --> 01:01:12,400
had a doorway and there was a back room

1552
01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:14,400
and they came out

1553
01:01:19,829 --> 01:01:17,760
and they started talking with us

1554
01:01:22,950 --> 01:01:19,839
and they told us that

1555
01:01:23,670 --> 01:01:22,960
that was when they told us that

1556
01:01:25,349 --> 01:01:23,680
the

1557
01:01:28,870 --> 01:01:25,359
space shuttle

1558
01:01:31,829 --> 01:01:28,880
had flown several top secret missions

1559
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:31,839
that no one had ever known about

1560
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:34,240
well the question i have and by the way

1561
01:01:38,870 --> 01:01:36,240
i made i made an error that's helium 3

1562
01:01:40,470 --> 01:01:38,880
not hydrogen 3 on the moon so let me

1563
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:40,480
just ask you this

1564
01:01:45,670 --> 01:01:43,040
if that is the case

1565
01:01:48,630 --> 01:01:45,680
you can't just launch the space shuttle

1566
01:01:50,390 --> 01:01:48,640
without anyone knowing about it

1567
01:01:52,789 --> 01:01:50,400
that's what i was thinking too i said i

1568
01:01:53,910 --> 01:01:52,799
i thought i saw every space shuttle

1569
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:53,920
launch

1570
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:55,760
you know that there was

1571
01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:57,680
and now here's how they did to prove it

1572
01:02:01,349 --> 01:01:59,760
to i mean they they were serious they

1573
01:02:02,630 --> 01:02:01,359
didn't they weren't clowning around you

1574
01:02:04,710 --> 01:02:02,640
know they weren't going to give us

1575
01:02:07,029 --> 01:02:04,720
prizes or anything but when you're

1576
01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:07,039
talking about this didn't did you have a

1577
01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:08,960
a non-disclosure

1578
01:02:12,390 --> 01:02:10,000
i mean well

1579
01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:12,400
did they at the end i did yes

1580
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:13,920
they waited until i had

1581
01:02:18,230 --> 01:02:16,559
how are you talking about this now

1582
01:02:21,270 --> 01:02:18,240
oh

1583
01:02:22,789 --> 01:02:21,280
do you remember okay in 2018 when we we

1584
01:02:24,150 --> 01:02:22,799
were at the international

1585
01:02:26,630 --> 01:02:24,160
uh yeah

1586
01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:26,640
and i they asked me to be part of a

1587
01:02:31,829 --> 01:02:29,280
panel with two astronauts

1588
01:02:32,630 --> 01:02:31,839
i missed i had had i had to leave but

1589
01:02:35,029 --> 01:02:32,640
yeah

1590
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:39,829
at that time in 2018 i did not have

1591
01:02:44,549 --> 01:02:42,160
permission to talk about this

1592
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:44,559
so when we when i was on that panel i

1593
01:02:48,309 --> 01:02:46,559
thought maybe you were there because i

1594
01:02:49,750 --> 01:02:48,319
started talking a little bit about this

1595
01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:49,760
on that panel

1596
01:02:54,309 --> 01:02:52,559
and the whole sound system went down

1597
01:02:56,390 --> 01:02:54,319
so i said oh oh

1598
01:02:58,710 --> 01:02:56,400
you know they found out that i was

1599
01:03:00,870 --> 01:02:58,720
talking about this so then right after

1600
01:03:03,589 --> 01:03:00,880
that when i went back from that i i did

1601
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:03,599
contact people from nassau

1602
01:03:08,710 --> 01:03:05,520
and now nobody that i worked with in

1603
01:03:10,549 --> 01:03:08,720
nassau back in 2006 was there anymore

1604
01:03:13,349 --> 01:03:10,559
but i did get permission written

1605
01:03:16,230 --> 01:03:13,359
permission to talk about this especially

1606
01:03:18,549 --> 01:03:16,240
since the aries program ended around

1607
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:18,559
2013.

1608
01:03:23,270 --> 01:03:20,400
now it's it's not over yet i mean this

1609
01:03:24,710 --> 01:03:23,280
is now they again we've got like between

1610
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:24,720
20 and 30

1611
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:27,680
people represented representing native

1612
01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:29,760
american tribes there in this room

1613
01:03:34,309 --> 01:03:31,359
behind the

1614
01:03:36,470 --> 01:03:34,319
mission control center and these

1615
01:03:37,270 --> 01:03:36,480
i think there were four scientists came

1616
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:37,280
out

1617
01:03:41,829 --> 01:03:39,440
and i'll add a little more to it to give

1618
01:03:43,510 --> 01:03:41,839
you an idea how they were giving us

1619
01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:43,520
proof okay

1620
01:03:47,349 --> 01:03:45,359
they were they were pushing this little

1621
01:03:49,589 --> 01:03:47,359
cart it was like a like a cart that you

1622
01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:49,599
might have coffee on or or selling

1623
01:03:52,630 --> 01:03:51,200
donuts or something it was a little

1624
01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:52,640
wheeled cart

1625
01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:56,240
and on that cart were about six plaques

1626
01:04:01,910 --> 01:03:59,760
wooden plaques and they they they told

1627
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:01,920
us first of all about

1628
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:04,480
nasa flying

1629
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:08,000
several top secret

1630
01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:10,960
missions with the space shuttle

1631
01:04:13,990 --> 01:04:12,640
and they said they uncovered these

1632
01:04:16,870 --> 01:04:14,000
plaques

1633
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:16,880
and they said that each plaque had on it

1634
01:04:19,349 --> 01:04:18,480
a patch

1635
01:04:22,549 --> 01:04:19,359
that

1636
01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:22,559
those astronauts on those top secret

1637
01:04:27,829 --> 01:04:26,079
shuttles wore on their uniforms

1638
01:04:29,910 --> 01:04:27,839
and that was the proof that they gave

1639
01:04:31,670 --> 01:04:29,920
this that those

1640
01:04:33,589 --> 01:04:31,680
uh that there were

1641
01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:33,599
i think there were at least six

1642
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:36,880
plaques on that uh

1643
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:39,599
a table type of a device you know

1644
01:04:43,670 --> 01:04:41,520
that they were pushing around and they

1645
01:04:45,589 --> 01:04:43,680
said that there were that many all those

1646
01:04:48,390 --> 01:04:45,599
each plaque represented a top secret

1647
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:48,400
mission that nava navajo right then

1648
01:04:52,470 --> 01:04:50,240
nassau flew

1649
01:04:54,789 --> 01:04:52,480
now they didn't say where

1650
01:04:56,549 --> 01:04:54,799
they went with those top secret missions

1651
01:04:59,029 --> 01:04:56,559
but they definitely said

1652
01:05:01,430 --> 01:04:59,039
that they were done

1653
01:05:02,950 --> 01:05:01,440
and i just can't imagine i can't imagine

1654
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:02,960
something like that

1655
01:05:10,230 --> 01:05:05,520
a space shuttle being launched i mean

1656
01:05:12,069 --> 01:05:10,240
did they launch it from area 51 i mean

1657
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:12,079
you know i know that was transported

1658
01:05:16,549 --> 01:05:14,160
once it landed in different places

1659
01:05:18,150 --> 01:05:16,559
transported back to florida i believe or

1660
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:18,160
wherever it was launched

1661
01:05:22,470 --> 01:05:21,440
um so it's possible to move around but i

1662
01:05:25,029 --> 01:05:22,480
mean

1663
01:05:27,270 --> 01:05:25,039
if they had an unscheduled launch of the

1664
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:27,280
space shuttle so many people would still

1665
01:05:31,750 --> 01:05:29,039
see it you know i can't imagine where

1666
01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:31,760
they could possibly launch it from

1667
01:05:37,829 --> 01:05:35,670
unless they said look up there they

1668
01:05:38,950 --> 01:05:37,839
launched it over there you know let me

1669
01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:38,960
ask you this

1670
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:40,079
um

1671
01:05:44,870 --> 01:05:42,880
is it possible that they were out on a

1672
01:05:47,270 --> 01:05:44,880
mission and then they did something

1673
01:05:49,109 --> 01:05:47,280
separately see they they wouldn't and

1674
01:05:51,750 --> 01:05:49,119
this is the whole thing

1675
01:05:53,910 --> 01:05:51,760
uh this is why you know

1676
01:05:55,430 --> 01:05:53,920
i'm telling you this on this show i the

1677
01:05:56,789 --> 01:05:55,440
whole time

1678
01:06:01,270 --> 01:05:56,799
i was there

1679
01:06:06,150 --> 01:06:03,109
answers

1680
01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:06,160
but i'm pretty aggressive you know so i

1681
01:06:14,309 --> 01:06:07,200
was

1682
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:14,319
largest uh native american tribes in the

1683
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:17,039
united states and there was no way i was

1684
01:06:21,270 --> 01:06:18,720
going to

1685
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:21,280
commit those people to this

1686
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:23,520
aries project if it was going to be

1687
01:06:26,789 --> 01:06:24,720
dangerous

1688
01:06:28,870 --> 01:06:26,799
and i made that clear

1689
01:06:29,829 --> 01:06:28,880
to nasa

1690
01:06:31,589 --> 01:06:29,839
but

1691
01:06:33,349 --> 01:06:31,599
you know what they were

1692
01:06:35,589 --> 01:06:33,359
when they they said i mean they that

1693
01:06:38,470 --> 01:06:35,599
shocked everybody in the room i mean i'm

1694
01:06:41,029 --> 01:06:38,480
i'm on the navajo reservation which is

1695
01:06:43,109 --> 01:06:41,039
it's it's hectic to say the least to

1696
01:06:45,270 --> 01:06:43,119
live there and i'm trying to turn around

1697
01:06:47,589 --> 01:06:45,280
the edge a whole educational system

1698
01:06:49,109 --> 01:06:47,599
and now they're telling me they want me

1699
01:06:50,950 --> 01:06:49,119
to get involved

1700
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:50,960
with going to mars

1701
01:06:56,870 --> 01:06:53,359
you know so and it's it's and then the

1702
01:06:58,950 --> 01:06:56,880
stuff they're telling me isn't good

1703
01:07:02,470 --> 01:06:58,960
because it's not over yet i mean they

1704
01:07:05,109 --> 01:07:02,480
they they they tell us that

1705
01:07:07,029 --> 01:07:05,119
there were six yeah or they i didn't

1706
01:07:08,710 --> 01:07:07,039
they didn't say six they just said this

1707
01:07:11,510 --> 01:07:08,720
is how many and they look like six

1708
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:11,520
plaques on the cart they said this is

1709
01:07:16,069 --> 01:07:14,400
how many top secret missions nassau has

1710
01:07:19,510 --> 01:07:16,079
flown they didn't say what they were

1711
01:07:21,029 --> 01:07:19,520
about they didn't so say what they were

1712
01:07:22,549 --> 01:07:21,039
okay

1713
01:07:24,230 --> 01:07:22,559
so then

1714
01:07:25,430 --> 01:07:24,240
uh

1715
01:07:32,870 --> 01:07:25,440
they

1716
01:07:35,990 --> 01:07:32,880
it there

1717
01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:36,000
so then we all go out to the parking lot

1718
01:07:40,230 --> 01:07:38,240
in the mission control center

1719
01:07:42,870 --> 01:07:40,240
and i'm i'm really

1720
01:07:44,470 --> 01:07:42,880
you know pretty upset because i you know

1721
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:44,480
i don't know what's going on right now

1722
01:07:47,190 --> 01:07:46,160
or why we're there all of us are pretty

1723
01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:47,200
upset

1724
01:07:50,069 --> 01:07:48,240
so

1725
01:07:52,230 --> 01:07:50,079
there's a big crowd of people out in the

1726
01:07:54,789 --> 01:07:52,240
parking lot

1727
01:07:57,109 --> 01:07:54,799
and i start going up to the nassau

1728
01:07:59,510 --> 01:07:57,119
scientists and whoever was there trying

1729
01:08:01,510 --> 01:07:59,520
to find out more i said what's what's

1730
01:08:03,190 --> 01:08:01,520
going on

1731
01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:03,200
and uh

1732
01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:06,400
they wouldn't they wouldn't say anything

1733
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:10,559
and then they started saying that okay

1734
01:08:16,709 --> 01:08:13,359
here's the deal

1735
01:08:18,950 --> 01:08:16,719
and it wasn't any better they said that

1736
01:08:21,749 --> 01:08:18,960
when they go from when the the current

1737
01:08:23,910 --> 01:08:21,759
astronauts in 2006 when those astronauts

1738
01:08:26,309 --> 01:08:23,920
go from the earth to the moon and then

1739
01:08:29,590 --> 01:08:26,319
they go from the moon to mars they're

1740
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:29,600
going to find things on mars that they

1741
01:08:34,390 --> 01:08:32,319
will not be able to psychologically

1742
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:34,400
handle

1743
01:08:40,630 --> 01:08:37,199
so when the astronauts get to

1744
01:08:43,030 --> 01:08:40,640
mars those astronauts that get the mars

1745
01:08:43,950 --> 01:08:43,040
are going to run into things that they

1746
01:08:47,110 --> 01:08:43,960
can't

1747
01:08:48,950 --> 01:08:47,120
psychologically handle

1748
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,960
but let me okay

1749
01:08:52,070 --> 01:08:50,400
okay just remember where i stopped

1750
01:08:54,149 --> 01:08:52,080
because i got there's more to it yeah

1751
01:08:55,910 --> 01:08:54,159
yeah yeah all right well this this uh

1752
01:08:58,550 --> 01:08:55,920
richard makes a good point why were you

1753
01:08:59,749 --> 01:08:58,560
being told these things and second of

1754
01:09:03,110 --> 01:08:59,759
all

1755
01:09:05,349 --> 01:09:03,120
the problem and i'm not saying you're

1756
01:09:07,349 --> 01:09:05,359
lying but the problem i have with the

1757
01:09:08,229 --> 01:09:07,359
statement you just made is

1758
01:09:10,709 --> 01:09:08,239
um

1759
01:09:15,349 --> 01:09:13,030
they would have to be briefed ahead of

1760
01:09:17,590 --> 01:09:15,359
time with the possibility of what they

1761
01:09:21,269 --> 01:09:17,600
may be seeing and so how could they not

1762
01:09:23,829 --> 01:09:21,279
handle it that's why i was there

1763
01:09:25,910 --> 01:09:23,839
oh not just me that's why the native

1764
01:09:27,430 --> 01:09:25,920
americans were there i that's what uh

1765
01:09:29,829 --> 01:09:27,440
well when what he was saying he asked

1766
01:09:31,430 --> 01:09:29,839
why were i was i being told this yeah

1767
01:09:34,470 --> 01:09:31,440
why were you

1768
01:09:37,829 --> 01:09:34,480
things okay that's what i'm going to

1769
01:09:41,030 --> 01:09:37,839
cover next oh okay all right okay

1770
01:09:42,070 --> 01:09:41,040
well i could we could just end it here

1771
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:42,080
but

1772
01:09:50,950 --> 01:09:43,120
yeah

1773
01:09:54,630 --> 01:09:50,960
come back next week no no no no

1774
01:09:56,229 --> 01:09:54,640
i i i might not be around you never know

1775
01:09:57,990 --> 01:09:56,239
but uh now this is the first time i've

1776
01:10:00,310 --> 01:09:58,000
gone through the whole story

1777
01:10:02,630 --> 01:10:00,320
since i got approval too

1778
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:02,640
but anyhow but i had never heard any of

1779
01:10:07,189 --> 01:10:04,960
this before okay the the top secret

1780
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:07,199
missions and all that stuff so we're out

1781
01:10:10,470 --> 01:10:08,400
in this parking lot and it's gonna look

1782
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:10,480
like it's getting ready for a gang fight

1783
01:10:13,350 --> 01:10:11,600
and i'm getting ready to be in the

1784
01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:13,360
middle of it you know because

1785
01:10:19,510 --> 01:10:16,560
you know this this stuff is is not

1786
01:10:20,709 --> 01:10:19,520
laying with me well so what they started

1787
01:10:23,350 --> 01:10:20,719
telling us

1788
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:23,360
okay why we were there

1789
01:10:31,030 --> 01:10:28,550
native americans

1790
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:31,040
and i can verify this

1791
01:10:36,149 --> 01:10:33,840
these native americans think differently

1792
01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:36,159
about things

1793
01:10:40,709 --> 01:10:39,120
when i was working on the navajo nation

1794
01:10:43,430 --> 01:10:40,719
and i was in the you know this this is

1795
01:10:44,870 --> 01:10:43,440
you know navajo nation is on parts of

1796
01:10:47,590 --> 01:10:44,880
new mexico

1797
01:10:50,709 --> 01:10:47,600
parts of arizona

1798
01:10:52,229 --> 01:10:50,719
utah and there's a little part of

1799
01:10:53,830 --> 01:10:52,239
colorado nobody knows about where

1800
01:10:55,510 --> 01:10:53,840
there's a chapter house

1801
01:10:57,669 --> 01:10:55,520
okay so there's

1802
01:11:00,390 --> 01:10:57,679
they're spread all over the place it's

1803
01:11:02,630 --> 01:11:00,400
right now i think there's a uh after the

1804
01:11:03,910 --> 01:11:02,640
coven 19 thing there's about

1805
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:03,920
uh

1806
01:11:09,030 --> 01:11:07,360
400 000 members it's

1807
01:11:11,030 --> 01:11:09,040
and martin it's it's a whole different

1808
01:11:13,750 --> 01:11:11,040
world out there they they think

1809
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:13,760
differently i had to know federal law i

1810
01:11:17,669 --> 01:11:16,000
think state law each each one of the

1811
01:11:20,950 --> 01:11:17,679
states that they're involved in those

1812
01:11:24,229 --> 01:11:20,960
laws i had to know local laws i had no

1813
01:11:26,950 --> 01:11:24,239
uh traditional navajo law and i had no

1814
01:11:29,110 --> 01:11:26,960
uh fundamental navajo law before i could

1815
01:11:31,110 --> 01:11:29,120
even start working there it's very

1816
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:31,120
complex they don't

1817
01:11:35,430 --> 01:11:33,040
think like us all right we could go on

1818
01:11:36,709 --> 01:11:35,440
for weeks talking about just the things

1819
01:11:39,189 --> 01:11:36,719
that happened

1820
01:11:41,030 --> 01:11:39,199
to me on the reservation that weren't

1821
01:11:42,950 --> 01:11:41,040
connected to nasa

1822
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:42,960
so what the bottom line because you know

1823
01:11:46,470 --> 01:11:44,159
i was pretty

1824
01:11:48,550 --> 01:11:46,480
huffed up about this what i got them to

1825
01:11:51,030 --> 01:11:48,560
tell me was that

1826
01:11:53,830 --> 01:11:51,040
why we were there was that they nasa

1827
01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:53,840
finally realized

1828
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:55,600
because native americans think

1829
01:11:58,390 --> 01:11:57,360
differently and that's mostly because

1830
01:12:00,870 --> 01:11:58,400
they were

1831
01:12:03,430 --> 01:12:00,880
raised and educated on

1832
01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:03,440
a a reservation

1833
01:12:08,390 --> 01:12:07,040
they were nasa was finding out by 2006

1834
01:12:13,270 --> 01:12:08,400
that most of their

1835
01:12:15,590 --> 01:12:13,280
astronauts were educated and raised in

1836
01:12:17,669 --> 01:12:15,600
the western cultures meaning the

1837
01:12:19,910 --> 01:12:17,679
european cultures and the culture of the

1838
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:19,920
united states

1839
01:12:24,630 --> 01:12:22,800
nasa felt that

1840
01:12:27,189 --> 01:12:24,640
they had to have

1841
01:12:29,270 --> 01:12:27,199
more types of input

1842
01:12:31,590 --> 01:12:29,280
in to the

1843
01:12:33,189 --> 01:12:31,600
members of the astronauts

1844
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:33,199
okay so that they could solve the

1845
01:12:37,510 --> 01:12:35,760
problems they were going to find

1846
01:12:39,510 --> 01:12:37,520
now they were just worried about mars i

1847
01:12:41,910 --> 01:12:39,520
think at that time but they said that

1848
01:12:44,470 --> 01:12:41,920
they were going to the astronauts who

1849
01:12:47,590 --> 01:12:44,480
were currently in 2006

1850
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:47,600
who were mostly predominantly immersed

1851
01:12:52,950 --> 01:12:50,080
in the western cultures were not going

1852
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:52,960
to be able to address and handle

1853
01:12:56,709 --> 01:12:54,960
psychologically at least

1854
01:12:59,510 --> 01:12:56,719
the issues they were going to find on

1855
01:13:02,310 --> 01:12:59,520
mars now that's that's all they would

1856
01:13:04,550 --> 01:13:02,320
say to me at that point okay so we're

1857
01:13:05,910 --> 01:13:04,560
all out in this parking lot but that

1858
01:13:07,750 --> 01:13:05,920
that's why we were there that's the

1859
01:13:09,830 --> 01:13:07,760
first time we found out

1860
01:13:11,830 --> 01:13:09,840
we were there and it wasn't you know it

1861
01:13:14,229 --> 01:13:11,840
was in a parking lot it wasn't even

1862
01:13:15,350 --> 01:13:14,239
officially in a you know a newsletter or

1863
01:13:17,510 --> 01:13:15,360
a meeting

1864
01:13:19,270 --> 01:13:17,520
so we're all scrambling around finally

1865
01:13:21,270 --> 01:13:19,280
the buses show up because they were

1866
01:13:23,830 --> 01:13:21,280
going to take us to i think a cafeteria

1867
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:23,840
to meet with uh nassau

1868
01:13:28,070 --> 01:13:26,560
engineers and talk to issue with issues

1869
01:13:28,950 --> 01:13:28,080
uh to them

1870
01:13:31,350 --> 01:13:28,960
so

1871
01:13:33,750 --> 01:13:31,360
we get in the bus buses and that's those

1872
01:13:36,390 --> 01:13:33,760
little vans like again

1873
01:13:38,870 --> 01:13:36,400
and i get onto a bus that's mostly just

1874
01:13:40,709 --> 01:13:38,880
nassau so you can imagine how well that

1875
01:13:44,470 --> 01:13:40,719
went over

1876
01:13:46,950 --> 01:13:44,480
so i finally cornered this one i think

1877
01:13:49,990 --> 01:13:46,960
he was a scientist from nassau

1878
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:50,000
and i said what kind of things

1879
01:13:55,750 --> 01:13:53,040
are you expecting the astronauts to run

1880
01:13:57,270 --> 01:13:55,760
into when they get to mars

1881
01:13:59,590 --> 01:13:57,280
because i didn't know if they had found

1882
01:14:02,470 --> 01:13:59,600
life on mars you know or if they had

1883
01:14:05,830 --> 01:14:02,480
found out what i was thinking is maybe

1884
01:14:07,669 --> 01:14:05,840
they found out that the laws of physics

1885
01:14:08,709 --> 01:14:07,679
on mars

1886
01:14:11,510 --> 01:14:08,719
don't

1887
01:14:13,030 --> 01:14:11,520
aren't the same laws of physics on earth

1888
01:14:14,390 --> 01:14:13,040
because i'm thinking what could cause

1889
01:14:17,590 --> 01:14:14,400
the astronauts

1890
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:17,600
not to psychologically handle being on

1891
01:14:20,470 --> 01:14:18,719
mars

1892
01:14:23,430 --> 01:14:20,480
so the one guy

1893
01:14:25,270 --> 01:14:23,440
i i can't say that i intimidated them

1894
01:14:27,350 --> 01:14:25,280
but i cornered them okay the one

1895
01:14:28,870 --> 01:14:27,360
scientist and i said look

1896
01:14:30,630 --> 01:14:28,880
i'm representing one of the largest

1897
01:14:33,189 --> 01:14:30,640
tribes in the united states

1898
01:14:34,550 --> 01:14:33,199
if you don't give me a concrete answer

1899
01:14:37,110 --> 01:14:34,560
as to what kind of things they're going

1900
01:14:38,950 --> 01:14:37,120
to face on mars i'm not going to get

1901
01:14:41,350 --> 01:14:38,960
involved in the aries program and i will

1902
01:14:43,350 --> 01:14:41,360
not commit the navajos i said they've

1903
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:43,360
been pushed around most of their lives

1904
01:14:46,149 --> 01:14:44,880
i'm not going to commit them to this

1905
01:14:48,390 --> 01:14:46,159
project

1906
01:14:51,030 --> 01:14:48,400
so he finally said okay he said okay

1907
01:14:52,790 --> 01:14:51,040
i'll give you one example

1908
01:14:54,470 --> 01:14:52,800
and i said okay one example is better

1909
01:14:58,790 --> 01:14:54,480
than no example

1910
01:15:02,950 --> 01:14:58,800
so he said okay nasa already knew

1911
01:15:05,830 --> 01:15:02,960
that on mars there was a natural gas

1912
01:15:07,669 --> 01:15:05,840
and that natural gas was extremely

1913
01:15:13,350 --> 01:15:07,679
volatile

1914
01:15:15,750 --> 01:15:13,360
and he said that

1915
01:15:17,350 --> 01:15:15,760
okay he said you've seen a space shuttle

1916
01:15:19,110 --> 01:15:17,360
and i said yes

1917
01:15:22,229 --> 01:15:19,120
he said you've seen the space shuttle

1918
01:15:25,590 --> 01:15:22,239
has a cargo area and i said yes he said

1919
01:15:27,590 --> 01:15:25,600
okay he said imagine making an

1920
01:15:31,430 --> 01:15:27,600
airtight container

1921
01:15:32,709 --> 01:15:31,440
that's the size of that cargo area

1922
01:15:36,149 --> 01:15:32,719
i said okay

1923
01:15:40,149 --> 01:15:36,159
he said now if you fill that

1924
01:15:43,350 --> 01:15:40,159
cargo area sized container up with this

1925
01:15:46,070 --> 01:15:43,360
volatile martian gas

1926
01:15:48,870 --> 01:15:46,080
that amount of gas

1927
01:15:51,350 --> 01:15:48,880
would generate enough electricity

1928
01:15:52,550 --> 01:15:51,360
to keep new york city's

1929
01:15:57,110 --> 01:15:52,560
lights

1930
01:15:59,430 --> 01:15:57,120
lit up brightly for a year and a half

1931
01:16:01,990 --> 01:15:59,440
and i said yeah that's that's pretty

1932
01:16:04,229 --> 01:16:02,000
volatile and he said well we need to

1933
01:16:08,149 --> 01:16:04,239
have people who think differently about

1934
01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:12,229
extract the gas from the martian soil

1935
01:16:16,149 --> 01:16:13,440
and then

1936
01:16:19,510 --> 01:16:16,159
transport it down to earth

1937
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:19,520
without something terrible happening

1938
01:16:24,229 --> 01:16:21,520
and that's the only

1939
01:16:27,990 --> 01:16:24,239
example i could get him to give me or

1940
01:16:28,790 --> 01:16:28,000
them to give me at that time

1941
01:16:30,630 --> 01:16:28,800
um

1942
01:16:34,070 --> 01:16:30,640
so nasa

1943
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:34,080
they had you in to talk about this they

1944
01:16:37,189 --> 01:16:36,000
had

1945
01:16:39,430 --> 01:16:37,199
um

1946
01:16:40,550 --> 01:16:39,440
they are looking at the native american

1947
01:16:42,070 --> 01:16:40,560
culture

1948
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:42,080
and for you to bring your best and

1949
01:16:48,790 --> 01:16:44,800
brightest of whoever it is

1950
01:16:50,790 --> 01:16:48,800
to train them be to become astronauts

1951
01:16:53,350 --> 01:16:50,800
yes

1952
01:16:55,270 --> 01:16:53,360
go ahead um so uh

1953
01:16:57,669 --> 01:16:55,280
this project aries

1954
01:16:59,910 --> 01:16:57,679
mm-hmm did it have an end when did

1955
01:17:02,070 --> 01:16:59,920
did it expire was there an ending to it

1956
01:17:04,030 --> 01:17:02,080
or is this still something in the works

1957
01:17:06,870 --> 01:17:04,040
yes it was somewhere around

1958
01:17:08,709 --> 01:17:06,880
2013 and 2012.

1959
01:17:10,630 --> 01:17:08,719
i think they ran into some kind of

1960
01:17:14,149 --> 01:17:10,640
difficulty with booster rockets or

1961
01:17:16,390 --> 01:17:14,159
something because i it was my job

1962
01:17:20,790 --> 01:17:16,400
representing i represented the the

1963
01:17:22,310 --> 01:17:20,800
navajo tribe it was my job to screen

1964
01:17:23,830 --> 01:17:22,320
and interview

1965
01:17:26,870 --> 01:17:23,840
and nominate

1966
01:17:29,510 --> 01:17:26,880
the best and the brightest navajos to

1967
01:17:31,030 --> 01:17:29,520
nassau for their aries program

1968
01:17:32,550 --> 01:17:31,040
and that's that's

1969
01:17:34,630 --> 01:17:32,560
what i did i only i think there were

1970
01:17:36,149 --> 01:17:34,640
only one or two ceremonies

1971
01:17:38,709 --> 01:17:36,159
that uh when i still worked there

1972
01:17:42,470 --> 01:17:38,719
because i left in 2007

1973
01:17:45,189 --> 01:17:42,480
but that was my job i had to

1974
01:17:47,510 --> 01:17:45,199
screen them i had to uh you know talk

1975
01:17:48,550 --> 01:17:47,520
with them look at their scores nominate

1976
01:17:50,390 --> 01:17:48,560
them

1977
01:17:52,870 --> 01:17:50,400
into the

1978
01:17:53,830 --> 01:17:52,880
aries program

1979
01:17:56,149 --> 01:17:53,840
um

1980
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:56,159
so the the only the the thing that i

1981
01:18:00,470 --> 01:17:57,600
find

1982
01:18:02,870 --> 01:18:00,480
very strange about this is that

1983
01:18:05,030 --> 01:18:02,880
if all indeed these things

1984
01:18:06,470 --> 01:18:05,040
and again i believe you're i'm not

1985
01:18:07,590 --> 01:18:06,480
saying i don't believe any of what

1986
01:18:08,790 --> 01:18:07,600
you're saying

1987
01:18:12,870 --> 01:18:08,800
but

1988
01:18:13,750 --> 01:18:12,880
that is so difficult for me to to grasp

1989
01:18:16,550 --> 01:18:13,760
is

1990
01:18:18,070 --> 01:18:16,560
why they would let you talk about such

1991
01:18:20,870 --> 01:18:18,080
an incredible

1992
01:18:23,110 --> 01:18:20,880
story and this in this gas do they have

1993
01:18:26,630 --> 01:18:23,120
a name for it a compound of why it's so

1994
01:18:28,870 --> 01:18:26,640
volatile and so full of energy

1995
01:18:31,030 --> 01:18:28,880
they didn't mention that to me now i

1996
01:18:32,630 --> 01:18:31,040
i've heard about the gas

1997
01:18:34,470 --> 01:18:32,640
since then

1998
01:18:36,709 --> 01:18:34,480
and uh

1999
01:18:38,630 --> 01:18:36,719
but that's that's all that they

2000
01:18:40,870 --> 01:18:38,640
mentioned they were talking kind of in

2001
01:18:43,189 --> 01:18:40,880
generalities

2002
01:18:45,030 --> 01:18:43,199
and

2003
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:45,040
i mean there were a lot of other things

2004
01:18:49,430 --> 01:18:47,040
they they they showed us about you know

2005
01:18:51,669 --> 01:18:49,440
how far nassau was going with things

2006
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:51,679
with robots and stuff but that was the

2007
01:18:57,030 --> 01:18:54,480
biggest issue they i mean it wasn't so

2008
01:18:59,110 --> 01:18:57,040
much i mean it seemed to me like the gas

2009
01:19:01,830 --> 01:18:59,120
was only one issue

2010
01:19:03,590 --> 01:19:01,840
and i i i'm

2011
01:19:05,590 --> 01:19:03,600
i know i've heard that those type of

2012
01:19:07,669 --> 01:19:05,600
gases exist

2013
01:19:09,910 --> 01:19:07,679
in other places but they were you know

2014
01:19:11,910 --> 01:19:09,920
they were they were concerned that

2015
01:19:15,669 --> 01:19:11,920
they needed

2016
01:19:17,669 --> 01:19:15,679
people with the culture that wasn't uh

2017
01:19:19,270 --> 01:19:17,679
the western culture that thought

2018
01:19:20,870 --> 01:19:19,280
differently about things

2019
01:19:23,750 --> 01:19:20,880
to help them solve these kind of

2020
01:19:26,870 --> 01:19:23,760
problems because nasa was running into

2021
01:19:28,550 --> 01:19:26,880
problems that they could not handle with

2022
01:19:32,149 --> 01:19:28,560
astronauts who were

2023
01:19:34,149 --> 01:19:32,159
only immersed in the western cultures

2024
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:34,159
as far as their education and upbringing

2025
01:19:36,390 --> 01:19:35,520
went

2026
01:19:37,990 --> 01:19:36,400
okay so

2027
01:19:40,229 --> 01:19:38,000
richard has another question how would

2028
01:19:42,709 --> 01:19:40,239
the navajos think differently about

2029
01:19:45,110 --> 01:19:42,719
handling a dangerous gases or you say

2030
01:19:47,189 --> 01:19:45,120
that was only a small part of this oh

2031
01:19:48,709 --> 01:19:47,199
yeah that was only one example that he

2032
01:19:50,950 --> 01:19:48,719
would give me but okay for example in

2033
01:19:53,590 --> 01:19:50,960
the navajos

2034
01:19:56,950 --> 01:19:55,110
just how they

2035
01:19:59,030 --> 01:19:56,960
approach things

2036
01:20:02,070 --> 01:19:59,040
like getting something organized okay

2037
01:20:04,070 --> 01:20:02,080
let's say if if they had to organize

2038
01:20:05,510 --> 01:20:04,080
a project

2039
01:20:08,629 --> 01:20:05,520
they have a

2040
01:20:12,149 --> 01:20:08,639
a system whereby if you're planning a

2041
01:20:16,790 --> 01:20:14,950
you face a certain direction

2042
01:20:19,430 --> 01:20:16,800
during a certain time of the day and

2043
01:20:21,189 --> 01:20:19,440
that's when you do your planning

2044
01:20:22,950 --> 01:20:21,199
and they had you know they were they had

2045
01:20:25,430 --> 01:20:22,960
some evidence that these kind of things

2046
01:20:26,790 --> 01:20:25,440
helped the navajos plan

2047
01:20:28,709 --> 01:20:26,800
then when you were getting ready you

2048
01:20:30,470 --> 01:20:28,719
know further on down the line

2049
01:20:33,110 --> 01:20:30,480
there was another place you'd go and you

2050
01:20:35,189 --> 01:20:33,120
face a different direction

2051
01:20:37,590 --> 01:20:35,199
and then do that part of planning these

2052
01:20:39,669 --> 01:20:37,600
kind of little uh

2053
01:20:41,910 --> 01:20:39,679
nuances

2054
01:20:44,070 --> 01:20:41,920
in the navajo culture

2055
01:20:46,629 --> 01:20:44,080
and other other native americans have

2056
01:20:48,550 --> 01:20:46,639
these same type of things are what they

2057
01:20:50,709 --> 01:20:48,560
were looking for different approaches

2058
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:50,719
like the navajo language is totally

2059
01:20:55,990 --> 01:20:52,320
different

2060
01:20:57,669 --> 01:20:56,000
it has uh it depends on what what pitch

2061
01:20:59,430 --> 01:20:57,679
you say the word at

2062
01:21:00,550 --> 01:20:59,440
it depends on how you cut the word off

2063
01:21:02,070 --> 01:21:00,560
at the end

2064
01:21:04,390 --> 01:21:02,080
you could have two words that have two

2065
01:21:06,470 --> 01:21:04,400
different meanings depending on what

2066
01:21:08,870 --> 01:21:06,480
pitch you say it at and if it's like yet

2067
01:21:12,070 --> 01:21:08,880
to hey or get the hit

2068
01:21:14,790 --> 01:21:12,080
that all depends on how you translate

2069
01:21:15,510 --> 01:21:14,800
the word like they they might not say

2070
01:21:18,550 --> 01:21:15,520
that

2071
01:21:21,350 --> 01:21:18,560
here's my here's a green pen they might

2072
01:21:24,149 --> 01:21:21,360
say here's a pen a writing utensil

2073
01:21:26,629 --> 01:21:24,159
that's the color of grass

2074
01:21:29,350 --> 01:21:26,639
now this again this is only the navajos

2075
01:21:32,870 --> 01:21:29,360
but native americans think totally

2076
01:21:36,229 --> 01:21:32,880
different it's a whole different place

2077
01:21:38,550 --> 01:21:36,239
to live on the reservation it's amazing

2078
01:21:41,270 --> 01:21:38,560
and you you know i i was dealing with

2079
01:21:44,310 --> 01:21:41,280
shamans every day

2080
01:21:45,270 --> 01:21:44,320
so they wanted nasa and felt that they

2081
01:21:47,430 --> 01:21:45,280
needed

2082
01:21:49,590 --> 01:21:47,440
some other outside

2083
01:21:52,550 --> 01:21:49,600
source of knowledge to help them solve

2084
01:21:54,950 --> 01:21:52,560
problems that they don't even know that

2085
01:21:58,550 --> 01:21:54,960
they're going to run into now again i

2086
01:22:00,470 --> 01:21:58,560
thought my instinct was that maybe on

2087
01:22:01,750 --> 01:22:00,480
mars there are

2088
01:22:03,669 --> 01:22:01,760
different

2089
01:22:06,070 --> 01:22:03,679
laws of physics than we have on earth

2090
01:22:09,110 --> 01:22:06,080
and that might cause them you know

2091
01:22:11,350 --> 01:22:09,120
a lot of issues on how astronauts think

2092
01:22:12,390 --> 01:22:11,360
and they never mentioned anything about

2093
01:22:15,669 --> 01:22:12,400
finding

2094
01:22:18,229 --> 01:22:15,679
extraterrestrial life forms

2095
01:22:20,149 --> 01:22:18,239
yeah well you know i mean when you first

2096
01:22:22,950 --> 01:22:20,159
said that at the very beginning

2097
01:22:25,270 --> 01:22:22,960
um i was the first thing i thought of is

2098
01:22:26,709 --> 01:22:25,280
they may see signs

2099
01:22:29,189 --> 01:22:26,719
of possible

2100
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:29,199
you know extraterrestrial life which may

2101
01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:31,120
you know kind of shake their reality a

2102
01:22:34,870 --> 01:22:32,880
little bit which i still think is a

2103
01:22:37,910 --> 01:22:34,880
possibility i mean it's still possible

2104
01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:37,920
that you know mars obviously had plenty

2105
01:22:41,910 --> 01:22:40,400
of water on it at one time yes or it

2106
01:22:43,830 --> 01:22:41,920
lost its um

2107
01:22:46,790 --> 01:22:43,840
uh what's it called

2108
01:22:49,189 --> 01:22:46,800
the magnetosphere um you know was it was

2109
01:22:52,070 --> 01:22:49,199
probably holding in uh the water and

2110
01:22:54,229 --> 01:22:52,080
holding an atmosphere to protect and to

2111
01:22:56,310 --> 01:22:54,239
develop life you know i still think it's

2112
01:22:58,790 --> 01:22:56,320
very possible that there could could be

2113
01:23:01,030 --> 01:22:58,800
signs of life found on mars yeah and the

2114
01:23:03,669 --> 01:23:01,040
life could like there there were several

2115
01:23:06,550 --> 01:23:03,679
occasions where huge objects crashed in

2116
01:23:09,750 --> 01:23:06,560
the earth when earth was populated with

2117
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:09,760
some type of life so in our

2118
01:23:13,910 --> 01:23:11,840
uh you know our

2119
01:23:16,149 --> 01:23:13,920
the uh what's the word

2120
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:16,159
on our galaxy but our

2121
01:23:19,510 --> 01:23:17,920
solar system

2122
01:23:21,510 --> 01:23:19,520
there could have been

2123
01:23:23,510 --> 01:23:21,520
parts of

2124
01:23:26,709 --> 01:23:23,520
life on earth that could have ended up

2125
01:23:29,030 --> 01:23:26,719
on different planets in our solar system

2126
01:23:31,510 --> 01:23:29,040
yeah that grew you know so there's a lot

2127
01:23:33,430 --> 01:23:31,520
of possibilities they just need they

2128
01:23:35,270 --> 01:23:33,440
needed some other ways of thinking about

2129
01:23:36,629 --> 01:23:35,280
things because they felt they were

2130
01:23:38,950 --> 01:23:36,639
limited

2131
01:23:42,470 --> 01:23:38,960
by using people who had been just

2132
01:23:44,550 --> 01:23:42,480
educated in the western cultures

2133
01:23:46,870 --> 01:23:44,560
now did was there

2134
01:23:49,430 --> 01:23:46,880
ever any point of time

2135
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:49,440
where you found out more information

2136
01:23:52,310 --> 01:23:51,120
about what they were

2137
01:23:55,430 --> 01:23:52,320
hoping to

2138
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:55,440
find or ask excavate i mean it was this

2139
01:23:59,910 --> 01:23:57,120
totally like an

2140
01:24:01,990 --> 01:23:59,920
excavation mission in your opinion or do

2141
01:24:03,430 --> 01:24:02,000
you think that there was more to a lot

2142
01:24:06,790 --> 01:24:03,440
more to it

2143
01:24:09,270 --> 01:24:06,800
well i i think well see the uh

2144
01:24:20,950 --> 01:24:09,280
the aries

2145
01:24:25,510 --> 01:24:23,990
excuse me had nothing to do with mining

2146
01:24:27,750 --> 01:24:25,520
i see

2147
01:24:29,910 --> 01:24:27,760
oh so

2148
01:24:31,590 --> 01:24:29,920
where was the crossover to the mining

2149
01:24:33,830 --> 01:24:31,600
part of it then was this something

2150
01:24:35,030 --> 01:24:33,840
entirely different

2151
01:24:38,149 --> 01:24:35,040
i think so

2152
01:24:39,750 --> 01:24:38,159
because the the whole aries directorate

2153
01:24:41,990 --> 01:24:39,760
was

2154
01:24:44,790 --> 01:24:42,000
around finding the you know like i said

2155
01:24:47,510 --> 01:24:44,800
their vision statement was to

2156
01:24:50,149 --> 01:24:47,520
find life beyond earth but their mission

2157
01:24:52,229 --> 01:24:50,159
statement was to search for life

2158
01:24:53,669 --> 01:24:52,239
throughout the universe so that was the

2159
01:24:55,350 --> 01:24:53,679
big thing

2160
01:24:57,189 --> 01:24:55,360
that aries was all about that's why i

2161
01:24:59,990 --> 01:24:57,199
said there's a parallel between what was

2162
01:25:03,830 --> 01:25:00,000
going on in 2006 or even maybe earlier

2163
01:25:05,430 --> 01:25:03,840
because i wasn't brought in until 2006.

2164
01:25:07,110 --> 01:25:05,440
so there was a parallel between that and

2165
01:25:08,870 --> 01:25:07,120
what's going on now

2166
01:25:10,149 --> 01:25:08,880
yeah you need to get yourself a glass of

2167
01:25:12,790 --> 01:25:10,159
water real quick

2168
01:25:13,750 --> 01:25:12,800
um let me just grab a bottle all right

2169
01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:13,760
okay

2170
01:25:20,870 --> 01:25:17,679
so um as i mentioned earlier uh we hope

2171
01:25:22,950 --> 01:25:20,880
to have gary nolan on next week so i do

2172
01:25:24,870 --> 01:25:22,960
want to tell the people uh

2173
01:25:27,990 --> 01:25:24,880
out there that all you have to do is go

2174
01:25:29,990 --> 01:25:28,000
on to podcastufo.com

2175
01:25:31,430 --> 01:25:30,000
and over on the sidebar you'll see a

2176
01:25:33,510 --> 01:25:31,440
mailing list

2177
01:25:35,510 --> 01:25:33,520
it's a once a week newsletter you just

2178
01:25:36,470 --> 01:25:35,520
drop your email address in there and

2179
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:36,480
click

2180
01:25:40,310 --> 01:25:38,880
send or whatever it is or agree

2181
01:25:42,070 --> 01:25:40,320
and then a link will be sent to your

2182
01:25:43,270 --> 01:25:42,080
email address you just confirm that link

2183
01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:43,280
and you'll get our once a week

2184
01:25:47,350 --> 01:25:45,600
newsletter because a lot of times at the

2185
01:25:49,669 --> 01:25:47,360
very last minute

2186
01:25:51,830 --> 01:25:49,679
something changes and i will would

2187
01:25:54,550 --> 01:25:51,840
announce any changes in who's coming up

2188
01:25:56,950 --> 01:25:54,560
and also what the blog is that's uh once

2189
01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:56,960
a week um i'm gonna be

2190
01:26:00,950 --> 01:25:59,440
opening up the lines here

2191
01:26:02,629 --> 01:26:00,960
and uh

2192
01:26:05,510 --> 01:26:02,639
just one other thing you know there's uh

2193
01:26:08,629 --> 01:26:05,520
mike adams has a uh in the chat is

2194
01:26:09,510 --> 01:26:08,639
saying why excavate mars but this sounds

2195
01:26:12,870 --> 01:26:09,520
like

2196
01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:12,880
uh to me and and correct me if i'm wrong

2197
01:26:18,390 --> 01:26:14,800
that if you can get

2198
01:26:19,990 --> 01:26:18,400
a container of gas even though it cost

2199
01:26:21,590 --> 01:26:20,000
uh

2200
01:26:23,750 --> 01:26:21,600
millions and millions and millions of

2201
01:26:26,470 --> 01:26:23,760
dollars maybe even billions of dollars

2202
01:26:28,550 --> 01:26:26,480
to get back why would that be worth it

2203
01:26:31,270 --> 01:26:28,560
to power new york for

2204
01:26:34,790 --> 01:26:31,280
so many months i mean is it really

2205
01:26:36,870 --> 01:26:34,800
enough energy to make the cost worth it

2206
01:26:38,629 --> 01:26:36,880
uh that was beyond my pay grade they

2207
01:26:39,430 --> 01:26:38,639
only uh you know i was there for one

2208
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:39,440
more

2209
01:26:43,030 --> 01:26:40,960
day

2210
01:26:44,470 --> 01:26:43,040
uh

2211
01:26:46,550 --> 01:26:44,480
they were

2212
01:26:50,550 --> 01:26:46,560
the reason i was there

2213
01:26:51,990 --> 01:26:50,560
was to get the brain power

2214
01:26:54,149 --> 01:26:52,000
re-geared

2215
01:26:55,910 --> 01:26:54,159
to take care of the problems that they

2216
01:26:57,189 --> 01:26:55,920
felt they would

2217
01:26:59,030 --> 01:26:57,199
run into

2218
01:27:00,790 --> 01:26:59,040
at least on mars

2219
01:27:03,510 --> 01:27:00,800
and uh knowing that you know i have no

2220
01:27:06,149 --> 01:27:03,520
idea what those six top secret missions

2221
01:27:08,470 --> 01:27:06,159
or how many there were the uh the

2222
01:27:10,229 --> 01:27:08,480
spatial top secret missions were or

2223
01:27:11,990 --> 01:27:10,239
where they went

2224
01:27:14,070 --> 01:27:12,000
but uh

2225
01:27:16,470 --> 01:27:14,080
like i said i all of us who were there

2226
01:27:19,110 --> 01:27:16,480
we had no idea why we were there

2227
01:27:22,470 --> 01:27:19,120
and when we got there the the reason we

2228
01:27:24,709 --> 01:27:22,480
found out why is we were trying to

2229
01:27:27,510 --> 01:27:24,719
mix the way of thinking of the native

2230
01:27:30,390 --> 01:27:27,520
americans in with people who had been

2231
01:27:33,030 --> 01:27:30,400
educated in the western culture and that

2232
01:27:34,629 --> 01:27:33,040
was the biggest you know that was the

2233
01:27:36,470 --> 01:27:34,639
reason we were there when we weren't

2234
01:27:38,790 --> 01:27:36,480
going to be mining or anything like that

2235
01:27:41,750 --> 01:27:38,800
for them but we were we they needed our

2236
01:27:43,669 --> 01:27:41,760
best and our brightest and that's who

2237
01:27:45,590 --> 01:27:43,679
they wanted to work with

2238
01:27:46,390 --> 01:27:45,600
but they had to be native americans who

2239
01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:46,400
were

2240
01:27:50,310 --> 01:27:48,480
basically brought up on the

2241
01:27:52,550 --> 01:27:50,320
reservation

2242
01:27:55,189 --> 01:27:52,560
i think that is that is quite

2243
01:27:57,750 --> 01:27:55,199
quite interesting that they would um

2244
01:28:01,030 --> 01:27:57,760
look for a cultural difference

2245
01:28:02,790 --> 01:28:01,040
um to to handle you know a certain

2246
01:28:05,590 --> 01:28:02,800
situation

2247
01:28:08,310 --> 01:28:05,600
and are there examples of

2248
01:28:10,070 --> 01:28:08,320
um astronauts native american astronauts

2249
01:28:11,750 --> 01:28:10,080
i don't know i don't

2250
01:28:14,709 --> 01:28:11,760
well i know that uh

2251
01:28:16,870 --> 01:28:14,719
i recommended students to the program i

2252
01:28:19,350 --> 01:28:16,880
don't know how far they got because like

2253
01:28:21,030 --> 01:28:19,360
i said i left the uh

2254
01:28:24,149 --> 01:28:21,040
working with the department of the

2255
01:28:25,910 --> 01:28:24,159
interior in 2007.

2256
01:28:29,270 --> 01:28:25,920
i see

2257
01:28:30,870 --> 01:28:29,280
i have uh i have opened the lines up and

2258
01:28:36,229 --> 01:28:30,880
we already have someone on the line and

2259
01:28:40,149 --> 01:28:38,390
we have stephen from grand rapids

2260
01:28:42,790 --> 01:28:40,159
michigan stephen welcome to the show

2261
01:28:44,310 --> 01:28:42,800
you're live on the air

2262
01:28:46,470 --> 01:28:44,320
excellent thank you martin thank you for

2263
01:28:49,030 --> 01:28:46,480
what you do and for dr robert thank you

2264
01:28:51,350 --> 01:28:49,040
for the uh conversation dr robert my

2265
01:28:53,910 --> 01:28:51,360
question is uh in regards to absolutely

2266
01:28:56,229 --> 01:28:53,920
in regards to i know that shamans

2267
01:28:58,629 --> 01:28:56,239
worldwide typically takes psychedelic

2268
01:29:00,229 --> 01:28:58,639
drugs to enter into the spiritual realm

2269
01:29:02,550 --> 01:29:00,239
i think that's been fairly well

2270
01:29:04,629 --> 01:29:02,560
documented i don't know if that is

2271
01:29:06,390 --> 01:29:04,639
uh well i know that an archetype too of

2272
01:29:08,070 --> 01:29:06,400
when you enter this realm and when you

2273
01:29:10,070 --> 01:29:08,080
take psychedelics is the ufo

2274
01:29:11,669 --> 01:29:10,080
occasionally pops up i don't know if you

2275
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:11,679
have thoughts and maybe that's why

2276
01:29:15,189 --> 01:29:13,199
native americans in particular were

2277
01:29:18,229 --> 01:29:15,199
invited to the program or but i'd love

2278
01:29:23,189 --> 01:29:18,239
to hear your thoughts and thank you both

2279
01:29:27,750 --> 01:29:25,030
you want me to

2280
01:29:30,390 --> 01:29:27,760
say hello

2281
01:29:32,229 --> 01:29:30,400
i can't hear you martin

2282
01:29:34,790 --> 01:29:32,239
go ahead and answer his question

2283
01:29:36,470 --> 01:29:34,800
okay yeah the uh

2284
01:29:38,870 --> 01:29:36,480
i used to hang around with the medicine

2285
01:29:40,310 --> 01:29:38,880
men quite a bit when i was on the

2286
01:29:42,950 --> 01:29:40,320
reservation

2287
01:29:44,790 --> 01:29:42,960
very very interesting people

2288
01:29:47,750 --> 01:29:44,800
but they have

2289
01:29:49,510 --> 01:29:47,760
different solutions to things now they

2290
01:29:50,830 --> 01:29:49,520
um

2291
01:29:52,390 --> 01:29:50,840
there were things

2292
01:29:55,510 --> 01:29:52,400
other

2293
01:29:58,229 --> 01:29:55,520
than ufos or flying saucers

2294
01:30:00,790 --> 01:29:58,239
that they would talk to me about

2295
01:30:03,830 --> 01:30:00,800
the medicine men that is and there were

2296
01:30:05,910 --> 01:30:03,840
a lot of strange things that happened

2297
01:30:09,030 --> 01:30:05,920
up on the reservation when i was working

2298
01:30:11,270 --> 01:30:09,040
there that's what i was trying to

2299
01:30:12,070 --> 01:30:11,280
let's say clear up

2300
01:30:14,310 --> 01:30:12,080
uh

2301
01:30:17,270 --> 01:30:14,320
i'm really

2302
01:30:19,430 --> 01:30:17,280
not at liberty to discuss in detail some

2303
01:30:22,229 --> 01:30:19,440
of the things that went on there

2304
01:30:24,070 --> 01:30:22,239
it was very there were odd things going

2305
01:30:25,910 --> 01:30:24,080
on there that let's say only the

2306
01:30:27,910 --> 01:30:25,920
medicine men

2307
01:30:29,270 --> 01:30:27,920
could deal with and they definitely were

2308
01:30:31,430 --> 01:30:29,280
shamans

2309
01:30:34,470 --> 01:30:31,440
now

2310
01:30:36,870 --> 01:30:34,480
hung around with they carried like

2311
01:30:39,590 --> 01:30:36,880
little bags of like this fluorescent

2312
01:30:42,310 --> 01:30:39,600
yellow powder but i think that was more

2313
01:30:43,990 --> 01:30:42,320
of a corn and they'd sprinkle it on me

2314
01:30:46,310 --> 01:30:44,000
and i never got high or anything like

2315
01:30:48,550 --> 01:30:46,320
that from them sprinkling it on me

2316
01:30:50,390 --> 01:30:48,560
but uh

2317
01:30:52,470 --> 01:30:50,400
there were a lot of strange things

2318
01:30:55,110 --> 01:30:52,480
happening there

2319
01:30:58,950 --> 01:30:55,120
and uh

2320
01:30:59,830 --> 01:30:58,960
one of my solutions was before i left

2321
01:31:01,110 --> 01:30:59,840
i

2322
01:31:04,390 --> 01:31:01,120
uh

2323
01:31:05,750 --> 01:31:04,400
hired a shaman to come and bless the

2324
01:31:07,990 --> 01:31:05,760
area

2325
01:31:11,110 --> 01:31:08,000
where i was living and working to see if

2326
01:31:13,110 --> 01:31:11,120
maybe that would stop some of the things

2327
01:31:14,709 --> 01:31:13,120
that were going on but there were

2328
01:31:16,950 --> 01:31:14,719
strange things

2329
01:31:18,709 --> 01:31:16,960
that were hard to explain

2330
01:31:20,390 --> 01:31:18,719
you want to go let's i always love to

2331
01:31:22,310 --> 01:31:20,400
hear about strange things

2332
01:31:24,790 --> 01:31:22,320
okay let's go into a couple of details

2333
01:31:28,550 --> 01:31:24,800
of what was happening

2334
01:31:33,110 --> 01:31:30,709
okay how long ago let's see

2335
01:31:34,870 --> 01:31:33,120
all right first of all like i was hired

2336
01:31:38,149 --> 01:31:34,880
i think in june

2337
01:31:39,430 --> 01:31:38,159
of 2005 to go to work up there

2338
01:31:42,229 --> 01:31:39,440
uh by

2339
01:31:44,070 --> 01:31:42,239
a colleague of mine who was working with

2340
01:31:47,030 --> 01:31:44,080
me and new mexico state university they

2341
01:31:49,669 --> 01:31:47,040
had a a team of

2342
01:31:52,950 --> 01:31:49,679
consultants and again my job was to turn

2343
01:31:55,110 --> 01:31:52,960
the schools around that's what i do

2344
01:31:56,790 --> 01:31:55,120
well let's put it that way

2345
01:31:59,510 --> 01:31:56,800
so

2346
01:32:03,510 --> 01:31:59,520
i was hired in june

2347
01:32:05,750 --> 01:32:03,520
he committed suicide in july

2348
01:32:08,310 --> 01:32:05,760
because he couldn't handle

2349
01:32:11,189 --> 01:32:08,320
the things that were going on up there

2350
01:32:14,950 --> 01:32:11,199
uh things that i would find happening up

2351
01:32:20,950 --> 01:32:17,430
and i don't know exactly what they were

2352
01:32:23,590 --> 01:32:22,310
when i'd get up there and i first

2353
01:32:25,510 --> 01:32:23,600
started living up there i'd take a

2354
01:32:26,950 --> 01:32:25,520
shower and my body would be cherry red

2355
01:32:30,070 --> 01:32:26,960
afterwards

2356
01:32:32,390 --> 01:32:30,080
and i figured this wasn't quite normal

2357
01:32:34,629 --> 01:32:32,400
so i put another filter in my coffee pot

2358
01:32:35,750 --> 01:32:34,639
thinking that would take care of it but

2359
01:32:39,110 --> 01:32:35,760
it didn't

2360
01:32:41,430 --> 01:32:39,120
so i had i i went and i found out that

2361
01:32:43,669 --> 01:32:41,440
uh in the water supply that they had

2362
01:32:45,590 --> 01:32:43,679
been using there for years

2363
01:32:47,350 --> 01:32:45,600
it was two and a half half two and a

2364
01:32:48,229 --> 01:32:47,360
half times the amount of uranium in the

2365
01:32:50,229 --> 01:32:48,239
water

2366
01:32:52,310 --> 01:32:50,239
and was allowable

2367
01:32:54,790 --> 01:32:52,320
wow so i had to shut down the whole

2368
01:32:57,350 --> 01:32:54,800
place and replace all the pipes and the

2369
01:32:59,510 --> 01:32:57,360
water tower and all that type of thing

2370
01:33:00,470 --> 01:32:59,520
uh there were strange things that would

2371
01:33:01,910 --> 01:33:00,480
happen

2372
01:33:04,790 --> 01:33:01,920
all the time

2373
01:33:07,110 --> 01:33:04,800
like somebody got in one time and in the

2374
01:33:09,350 --> 01:33:07,120
basement and tore out all the phone

2375
01:33:11,590 --> 01:33:09,360
wires and everything so we were cut off

2376
01:33:14,870 --> 01:33:11,600
from uh civilization

2377
01:33:17,189 --> 01:33:14,880
nobody saw it wasn't picked up on our uh

2378
01:33:19,669 --> 01:33:17,199
cameras things like that

2379
01:33:21,669 --> 01:33:19,679
so there there was and you had to

2380
01:33:24,229 --> 01:33:21,679
luckily i'm a little bit you know being

2381
01:33:27,590 --> 01:33:24,239
a musician an artist at all you know i'm

2382
01:33:29,270 --> 01:33:27,600
used to the strange things but uh

2383
01:33:31,910 --> 01:33:29,280
yeah there are two members of the team

2384
01:33:33,669 --> 01:33:31,920
that i started with one uh

2385
01:33:35,350 --> 01:33:33,679
committed suicide the other one had a

2386
01:33:39,030 --> 01:33:35,360
nervous breakdown

2387
01:33:42,550 --> 01:33:40,310
wow

2388
01:33:44,229 --> 01:33:42,560
well um

2389
01:33:46,229 --> 01:33:44,239
someone wanted to know

2390
01:33:48,390 --> 01:33:46,239
did their decision tree mostly end up at

2391
01:33:50,149 --> 01:33:48,400
mushrooms i mean did they

2392
01:33:51,910 --> 01:33:50,159
did

2393
01:33:53,590 --> 01:33:51,920
okay that's a good point

2394
01:33:55,750 --> 01:33:53,600
uh

2395
01:33:58,070 --> 01:33:55,760
my some of my staff

2396
01:33:59,189 --> 01:33:58,080
that i had working under me

2397
01:34:01,830 --> 01:33:59,199
they had

2398
01:34:02,830 --> 01:34:01,840
two cards that permitted them

2399
01:34:04,550 --> 01:34:02,840
to use

2400
01:34:05,430 --> 01:34:04,560
peyote

2401
01:34:06,229 --> 01:34:05,440
oh

2402
01:34:07,510 --> 01:34:06,239
yeah

2403
01:34:10,070 --> 01:34:07,520
so uh

2404
01:34:12,149 --> 01:34:10,080
that's cactus right or something is that

2405
01:34:15,110 --> 01:34:12,159
i can't i don't know i wasn't into it at

2406
01:34:19,030 --> 01:34:15,120
that time but uh i didn't try to buy

2407
01:34:21,430 --> 01:34:19,040
anything that's what they think yeah

2408
01:34:22,390 --> 01:34:21,440
but they they actually had cards it was

2409
01:34:24,390 --> 01:34:22,400
legal

2410
01:34:25,990 --> 01:34:24,400
back you know there

2411
01:34:28,870 --> 01:34:26,000
uh

2412
01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:28,880
there were all sorts of things that you

2413
01:34:35,030 --> 01:34:31,440
you just couldn't imagine it's like you

2414
01:34:38,629 --> 01:34:35,040
know turning around the western culture

2415
01:34:40,470 --> 01:34:38,639
you know of 182 degrees they had places

2416
01:34:41,750 --> 01:34:40,480
up there where

2417
01:34:44,470 --> 01:34:41,760
um

2418
01:34:47,590 --> 01:34:44,480
they were safety zones where

2419
01:34:49,669 --> 01:34:47,600
let's say uh a person

2420
01:34:51,350 --> 01:34:49,679
could commit a crime

2421
01:34:54,390 --> 01:34:51,360
and then go there and they couldn't be

2422
01:34:56,310 --> 01:34:54,400
prosecuted as long as they were there

2423
01:34:59,830 --> 01:34:56,320
and like when you were dealing with

2424
01:35:03,270 --> 01:34:59,840
navajo fundamental law

2425
01:35:07,669 --> 01:35:05,350
stole something

2426
01:35:09,669 --> 01:35:07,679
or injured somebody

2427
01:35:10,629 --> 01:35:09,679
that that you might negotiate a deal

2428
01:35:12,790 --> 01:35:10,639
where

2429
01:35:15,590 --> 01:35:12,800
they could take something of yours or

2430
01:35:18,790 --> 01:35:15,600
they got to do something to a member of

2431
01:35:19,830 --> 01:35:18,800
your family that was detrimental

2432
01:35:21,669 --> 01:35:19,840
wow

2433
01:35:22,629 --> 01:35:21,679
it was it was

2434
01:35:24,229 --> 01:35:22,639
unique

2435
01:35:26,629 --> 01:35:24,239
now getting back to your water i don't

2436
01:35:28,390 --> 01:35:26,639
want to stay on that too long but it

2437
01:35:30,470 --> 01:35:28,400
sounds to me you know you hear about

2438
01:35:32,149 --> 01:35:30,480
radon in the water and

2439
01:35:34,950 --> 01:35:32,159
you know the the issues and things like

2440
01:35:36,629 --> 01:35:34,960
that health issues and it

2441
01:35:38,790 --> 01:35:36,639
what were the health issues when the

2442
01:35:39,910 --> 01:35:38,800
this was in their water supply it was

2443
01:35:40,709 --> 01:35:39,920
bad

2444
01:35:43,270 --> 01:35:40,719
i mean

2445
01:35:45,270 --> 01:35:43,280
they mean again

2446
01:35:47,350 --> 01:35:45,280
when i okay when i i had a shut down it

2447
01:35:48,790 --> 01:35:47,360
was like a little village i had to shut

2448
01:35:51,750 --> 01:35:48,800
it down

2449
01:35:53,189 --> 01:35:51,760
and uh then i had to uh that way to

2450
01:35:55,270 --> 01:35:53,199
replace the pipes and i had to bring in

2451
01:35:57,910 --> 01:35:55,280
what they call water buffalos so the

2452
01:35:59,830 --> 01:35:57,920
community could have water to drink but

2453
01:36:02,790 --> 01:35:59,840
then i ended up it was taking so much

2454
01:36:05,590 --> 01:36:02,800
time i had to move the whole community

2455
01:36:07,990 --> 01:36:05,600
to another place and it was called

2456
01:36:09,350 --> 01:36:08,000
grants new mexico so we had to

2457
01:36:10,790 --> 01:36:09,360
find a hotel and take the whole

2458
01:36:12,950 --> 01:36:10,800
community and live there until they

2459
01:36:14,470 --> 01:36:12,960
could redo the water supply

2460
01:36:17,030 --> 01:36:14,480
but um

2461
01:36:19,750 --> 01:36:17,040
the these the the people there they were

2462
01:36:22,709 --> 01:36:19,760
they were not physically in good shape

2463
01:36:25,350 --> 01:36:22,719
uh when i was on the reservation

2464
01:36:27,270 --> 01:36:25,360
uh i picked up a disease known as

2465
01:36:28,790 --> 01:36:27,280
clostridium difficile

2466
01:36:31,350 --> 01:36:28,800
or c diff

2467
01:36:32,870 --> 01:36:31,360
and when i left that and uh you know

2468
01:36:35,350 --> 01:36:32,880
when i went to the doctors i started

2469
01:36:37,350 --> 01:36:35,360
getting really sick and they said that

2470
01:36:39,669 --> 01:36:37,360
uh yeah it was definitely c diff and i

2471
01:36:41,109 --> 01:36:39,679
probably got it up on the reservation i

2472
01:36:42,950 --> 01:36:41,119
almost died

2473
01:36:44,790 --> 01:36:42,960
but there were a lot of the people who

2474
01:36:46,550 --> 01:36:44,800
worked with me because they

2475
01:36:49,669 --> 01:36:46,560
had worked at the you're in the iranian

2476
01:36:51,430 --> 01:36:49,679
uranium mines and some earlier

2477
01:36:54,390 --> 01:36:51,440
they're they were not in good shape in

2478
01:36:56,310 --> 01:36:54,400
fact when i went to a doctor because i

2479
01:36:58,790 --> 01:36:56,320
couldn't go to the same doctor that the

2480
01:37:02,149 --> 01:36:58,800
navajos went to on the reservation i had

2481
01:37:04,550 --> 01:37:02,159
to go to a a doctor that would treat

2482
01:37:06,550 --> 01:37:04,560
uh people who were non-navajos

2483
01:37:08,709 --> 01:37:06,560
and uh

2484
01:37:10,629 --> 01:37:08,719
i told her that

2485
01:37:12,550 --> 01:37:10,639
i found out that and it was the then

2486
01:37:14,709 --> 01:37:12,560
found out that it was the navajos that

2487
01:37:16,229 --> 01:37:14,719
were selling us the water that they knew

2488
01:37:18,070 --> 01:37:16,239
had the uranium in it

2489
01:37:20,470 --> 01:37:18,080
in the long run but i told her that i

2490
01:37:21,910 --> 01:37:20,480
had been drinking water and using water

2491
01:37:23,109 --> 01:37:21,920
that two and a half times the amount of

2492
01:37:24,950 --> 01:37:23,119
uranium

2493
01:37:27,109 --> 01:37:24,960
and she said actually for where you're

2494
01:37:28,149 --> 01:37:27,119
living that's not too bad

2495
01:37:30,310 --> 01:37:28,159
oh

2496
01:37:31,590 --> 01:37:30,320
geez and uh you know

2497
01:37:33,510 --> 01:37:31,600
i was worried that i was gonna start

2498
01:37:36,550 --> 01:37:33,520
glowing in the dark

2499
01:37:39,189 --> 01:37:36,560
yeah yeah it was

2500
01:37:41,430 --> 01:37:39,199
health issues i mean you just i would

2501
01:37:44,149 --> 01:37:41,440
always i was constantly i was highly

2502
01:37:45,830 --> 01:37:44,159
highly trained and educated

2503
01:37:47,430 --> 01:37:45,840
in these kind of things all the time the

2504
01:37:48,950 --> 01:37:47,440
government would you know send me to

2505
01:37:50,229 --> 01:37:48,960
training sessions

2506
01:37:52,950 --> 01:37:50,239
uh

2507
01:37:55,350 --> 01:37:52,960
people people would build houses on top

2508
01:37:57,350 --> 01:37:55,360
of uranium mines

2509
01:38:00,070 --> 01:37:57,360
a housing development and you'd go by

2510
01:38:01,109 --> 01:38:00,080
and you'd see a yellow

2511
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:01,119
ore

2512
01:38:04,550 --> 01:38:03,360
around the basements and they they would

2513
01:38:07,990 --> 01:38:04,560
uh

2514
01:38:09,430 --> 01:38:08,000
build a wooden house but not paint it

2515
01:38:11,350 --> 01:38:09,440
i mean it was just

2516
01:38:13,109 --> 01:38:11,360
no no it was a whole different way of

2517
01:38:15,510 --> 01:38:13,119
approaching things

2518
01:38:16,790 --> 01:38:15,520
now a lot of times you hear stories

2519
01:38:18,629 --> 01:38:16,800
about

2520
01:38:21,270 --> 01:38:18,639
you know the native american culture

2521
01:38:23,590 --> 01:38:21,280
talking about sky people and things like

2522
01:38:24,550 --> 01:38:23,600
that did you happen to get any into any

2523
01:38:26,470 --> 01:38:24,560
of those

2524
01:38:27,590 --> 01:38:26,480
type of discussions at the time you were

2525
01:38:28,629 --> 01:38:27,600
there

2526
01:38:30,950 --> 01:38:28,639
uh

2527
01:38:33,189 --> 01:38:30,960
there was always some kind of discussion

2528
01:38:35,030 --> 01:38:33,199
i mean it was very interesting to me

2529
01:38:37,270 --> 01:38:35,040
that's why i stayed there as long as i

2530
01:38:39,350 --> 01:38:37,280
did it was a whole i was being

2531
01:38:40,470 --> 01:38:39,360
introduced to things

2532
01:38:41,669 --> 01:38:40,480
daily

2533
01:38:44,870 --> 01:38:41,679
uh

2534
01:38:47,350 --> 01:38:44,880
they did mention a sprites

2535
01:38:49,590 --> 01:38:47,360
they uh there was one person an elder

2536
01:38:50,950 --> 01:38:49,600
that i was hanging out with

2537
01:38:52,629 --> 01:38:50,960
that uh

2538
01:38:55,189 --> 01:38:52,639
he was getting

2539
01:38:57,430 --> 01:38:55,199
evidence he claimed and like they were

2540
01:38:59,109 --> 01:38:57,440
like sprites in the water

2541
01:39:01,430 --> 01:38:59,119
and when we go to meetings he'd bring

2542
01:39:02,709 --> 01:39:01,440
like a a handbook full of photographs

2543
01:39:05,350 --> 01:39:02,719
where he was claiming he was getting

2544
01:39:07,830 --> 01:39:05,360
better and better evidence of sprites

2545
01:39:10,629 --> 01:39:07,840
and lights and so forth and there would

2546
01:39:12,550 --> 01:39:10,639
be sounds i hear at night i have no idea

2547
01:39:15,189 --> 01:39:12,560
what those sounds were being made now i

2548
01:39:16,709 --> 01:39:15,199
thought i thought a sprite was when the

2549
01:39:17,830 --> 01:39:16,719
lightning went up

2550
01:39:19,990 --> 01:39:17,840
yeah

2551
01:39:21,270 --> 01:39:20,000
so yes i mean

2552
01:39:22,870 --> 01:39:21,280
yes

2553
01:39:25,189 --> 01:39:22,880
and he was he was

2554
01:39:26,390 --> 01:39:25,199
if i'm not mistaken i think back he he

2555
01:39:27,669 --> 01:39:26,400
was getting

2556
01:39:28,550 --> 01:39:27,679
photographs

2557
01:39:31,270 --> 01:39:28,560
of

2558
01:39:33,910 --> 01:39:31,280
they looked like lights or lightning

2559
01:39:35,750 --> 01:39:33,920
that uh where they were in a lake like a

2560
01:39:38,070 --> 01:39:35,760
it was like considered to be a like a

2561
01:39:40,149 --> 01:39:38,080
sacred lake

2562
01:39:40,950 --> 01:39:40,159
and he was showing photographs of that

2563
01:39:44,709 --> 01:39:40,960
now

2564
01:39:46,709 --> 01:39:44,719
also like i also worked in uh washington

2565
01:39:49,430 --> 01:39:46,719
dc for what was called the tback the

2566
01:39:51,430 --> 01:39:49,440
tribal budget advisory committee so when

2567
01:39:53,590 --> 01:39:51,440
i would go to washington dc and lobby

2568
01:39:55,910 --> 01:39:53,600
for the navajos

2569
01:39:58,470 --> 01:39:55,920
i'd go up you know meet with other

2570
01:40:00,149 --> 01:39:58,480
members of tribes and everybody had

2571
01:40:01,830 --> 01:40:00,159
stories like that

2572
01:40:06,229 --> 01:40:01,840
so i mean it's like it's almost like if

2573
01:40:10,070 --> 01:40:07,990
just a reminder the line is open we have

2574
01:40:12,470 --> 01:40:10,080
bill standing by and that number is

2575
01:40:14,470 --> 01:40:12,480
eight five five four seven two

2576
01:40:16,629 --> 01:40:14,480
five four eight three colin if you have

2577
01:40:19,430 --> 01:40:16,639
a question for our guest

2578
01:40:21,590 --> 01:40:19,440
i know uh we haven't touched for a real

2579
01:40:23,990 --> 01:40:21,600
long time on the topic of what you came

2580
01:40:26,149 --> 01:40:24,000
on the show to talk about yeah this

2581
01:40:27,750 --> 01:40:26,159
whole thing if this whole thing about

2582
01:40:30,149 --> 01:40:27,760
the native american culture is

2583
01:40:32,870 --> 01:40:30,159
fascinating and uh

2584
01:40:36,550 --> 01:40:32,880
i would have never uh dreamed that they

2585
01:40:39,910 --> 01:40:36,560
would be singled out as a culture

2586
01:40:42,149 --> 01:40:39,920
um for any reason like this it's very

2587
01:40:45,270 --> 01:40:42,159
it's very it's a very unusual story it's

2588
01:40:49,430 --> 01:40:47,430
and yeah well they weren't the only it

2589
01:40:52,149 --> 01:40:49,440
wasn't it wasn't just the you know the

2590
01:40:54,709 --> 01:40:52,159
navajos they were all they had

2591
01:40:57,109 --> 01:40:54,719
there were several tribes represented

2592
01:40:58,790 --> 01:40:57,119
at that meeting

2593
01:41:01,189 --> 01:40:58,800
you know in in uh

2594
01:41:04,149 --> 01:41:01,199
the johnson space center but they were

2595
01:41:06,229 --> 01:41:04,159
definitely they the whole thing is they

2596
01:41:08,950 --> 01:41:06,239
were running into problems

2597
01:41:11,030 --> 01:41:08,960
that they needed additional help with

2598
01:41:11,990 --> 01:41:11,040
ways of thinking about it

2599
01:41:14,390 --> 01:41:12,000
i see

2600
01:41:16,229 --> 01:41:14,400
so mike wants to know what

2601
01:41:18,070 --> 01:41:16,239
is the most interesting story that you

2602
01:41:21,669 --> 01:41:18,080
heard

2603
01:41:21,679 --> 01:41:26,149
oh

2604
01:41:30,709 --> 01:41:28,550
i mean every place i would go there'd be

2605
01:41:35,830 --> 01:41:30,719
a different story

2606
01:41:38,470 --> 01:41:36,870
well look

2607
01:41:41,270 --> 01:41:38,480
there was once once where with with

2608
01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:41,280
people disappearing or people

2609
01:41:47,590 --> 01:41:44,400
turning into another person

2610
01:41:49,270 --> 01:41:47,600
that affected shape shifting in a way or

2611
01:41:50,470 --> 01:41:49,280
something i i guess it would call that

2612
01:41:51,990 --> 01:41:50,480
it was uh

2613
01:41:54,310 --> 01:41:52,000
it was with the the company that

2614
01:41:57,590 --> 01:41:54,320
originally hired me to go up there with

2615
01:42:00,310 --> 01:41:57,600
the consultants from new mexico state

2616
01:42:02,709 --> 01:42:00,320
one of the ladies that worked there with

2617
01:42:04,550 --> 01:42:02,719
on in that company

2618
01:42:06,470 --> 01:42:04,560
told me that

2619
01:42:07,750 --> 01:42:06,480
she was she had a trailer or something

2620
01:42:10,709 --> 01:42:07,760
they were moving

2621
01:42:13,590 --> 01:42:10,719
equipment in and out of the

2622
01:42:15,830 --> 01:42:13,600
teacher ridge there on the reservation

2623
01:42:18,229 --> 01:42:15,840
and she got the trailer stuck and she

2624
01:42:19,270 --> 01:42:18,239
couldn't maneuver the trailer to get it

2625
01:42:22,709 --> 01:42:19,280
out of the

2626
01:42:24,470 --> 01:42:22,719
situation it was in and she said this uh

2627
01:42:25,669 --> 01:42:24,480
this young man

2628
01:42:28,310 --> 01:42:25,679
helped her

2629
01:42:30,390 --> 01:42:28,320
and she wanted to she got the trailer

2630
01:42:32,709 --> 01:42:30,400
out for her he said she did she never

2631
01:42:35,270 --> 01:42:32,719
saw anyone drive like that before

2632
01:42:37,109 --> 01:42:35,280
and she wanted to tip him and she he

2633
01:42:39,270 --> 01:42:37,119
wouldn't take any money

2634
01:42:40,709 --> 01:42:39,280
and she he said well at least tell me

2635
01:42:42,390 --> 01:42:40,719
your name and i'll i'll send you

2636
01:42:43,590 --> 01:42:42,400
something so he gave her

2637
01:42:45,189 --> 01:42:43,600
his name

2638
01:42:48,390 --> 01:42:45,199
and then when she the next day or two

2639
01:42:50,709 --> 01:42:48,400
when she went to find out who this was

2640
01:42:52,229 --> 01:42:50,719
uh the person was a totally different

2641
01:42:54,070 --> 01:42:52,239
person

2642
01:42:55,510 --> 01:42:54,080
hmm

2643
01:42:57,830 --> 01:42:55,520
that sounds well i mean that's the

2644
01:42:59,430 --> 01:42:57,840
closest one that i could you know yeah

2645
01:43:02,470 --> 01:42:59,440
to give you

2646
01:43:03,910 --> 01:43:02,480
that's pretty bizarre um so originally

2647
01:43:05,030 --> 01:43:03,920
you know when we talked about you coming

2648
01:43:08,629 --> 01:43:05,040
on the show

2649
01:43:11,430 --> 01:43:08,639
you had mentioned that um you know the

2650
01:43:14,470 --> 01:43:11,440
about education when it comes to

2651
01:43:16,550 --> 01:43:14,480
um the potential for learning about uap

2652
01:43:18,950 --> 01:43:16,560
so we only have about uh looks like we

2653
01:43:21,590 --> 01:43:18,960
have uh 11 minutes left it's hard to

2654
01:43:23,189 --> 01:43:21,600
believe but uh why don't you go into

2655
01:43:26,629 --> 01:43:23,199
your thoughts on that

2656
01:43:29,669 --> 01:43:26,639
okay thank you yes i'm really encouraged

2657
01:43:31,430 --> 01:43:29,679
about what's starting to happen

2658
01:43:32,870 --> 01:43:31,440
with the uap

2659
01:43:34,950 --> 01:43:32,880
phenomenon

2660
01:43:37,669 --> 01:43:34,960
and like i've never been before and i've

2661
01:43:41,590 --> 01:43:37,679
been through as you can see a lot before

2662
01:43:48,310 --> 01:43:45,750
when in 2013 i was asked to give a

2663
01:43:52,390 --> 01:43:48,320
powerpoint presentation at the san

2664
01:43:53,270 --> 01:43:52,400
antonio astronomical associations

2665
01:43:55,830 --> 01:43:53,280
uh

2666
01:43:56,870 --> 01:43:55,840
it was the

2667
01:44:00,629 --> 01:43:56,880
school

2668
01:44:01,510 --> 01:44:00,639
it was the uh to get students interested

2669
01:44:02,870 --> 01:44:01,520
in

2670
01:44:05,109 --> 01:44:02,880
um

2671
01:44:09,990 --> 01:44:05,119
science

2672
01:44:13,270 --> 01:44:11,669
opening did they were trying to pull

2673
01:44:14,870 --> 01:44:13,280
people in to get used to the school

2674
01:44:18,149 --> 01:44:14,880
science program

2675
01:44:20,790 --> 01:44:18,159
and they asked me to do a presentation

2676
01:44:22,790 --> 01:44:20,800
it was on this hist astronomical

2677
01:44:27,270 --> 01:44:22,800
association's group but they asked me to

2678
01:44:28,550 --> 01:44:27,280
do the presentation on ufos

2679
01:44:31,750 --> 01:44:28,560
not

2680
01:44:34,550 --> 01:44:31,760
on astronomy

2681
01:44:37,510 --> 01:44:34,560
so the what i did is i put together they

2682
01:44:39,910 --> 01:44:37,520
asked for one hour a one hour long

2683
01:44:42,229 --> 01:44:39,920
presentation on ufos

2684
01:44:43,030 --> 01:44:42,239
and they asked me to do two of them so i

2685
01:44:45,910 --> 01:44:43,040
do

2686
01:44:47,990 --> 01:44:45,920
you know i presented twice

2687
01:44:50,550 --> 01:44:48,000
and

2688
01:44:53,590 --> 01:44:50,560
when i did that they set up a situation

2689
01:44:56,470 --> 01:44:53,600
for me it was done at the the uh

2690
01:44:58,870 --> 01:44:56,480
the convention center in far texas

2691
01:45:00,950 --> 01:44:58,880
p-h-a-r-r

2692
01:45:02,390 --> 01:45:00,960
it was it was the far international

2693
01:45:05,350 --> 01:45:02,400
convention center because it was right

2694
01:45:07,030 --> 01:45:05,360
near the mexican border

2695
01:45:08,870 --> 01:45:07,040
so i did these

2696
01:45:10,310 --> 01:45:08,880
powerpoint presentations and i talked

2697
01:45:13,830 --> 01:45:10,320
about how

2698
01:45:16,870 --> 01:45:13,840
uh the title of the presentation was uh

2699
01:45:18,950 --> 01:45:16,880
using science to explore the unknown and

2700
01:45:22,870 --> 01:45:18,960
it was a presentation

2701
01:45:25,830 --> 01:45:22,880
of just on science and then i brought in

2702
01:45:27,189 --> 01:45:25,840
folded in the ufo phenomenon

2703
01:45:28,950 --> 01:45:27,199
and

2704
01:45:31,109 --> 01:45:28,960
what happened was they had people there

2705
01:45:32,790 --> 01:45:31,119
they had astronauts there they had

2706
01:45:34,709 --> 01:45:32,800
people from nasa there they had people

2707
01:45:36,310 --> 01:45:34,719
from the national science foundation

2708
01:45:39,830 --> 01:45:36,320
there they had the people from the

2709
01:45:42,149 --> 01:45:39,840
astronomical associations there

2710
01:45:44,390 --> 01:45:42,159
and my

2711
01:45:45,510 --> 01:45:44,400
presentation was the best attended out

2712
01:45:47,990 --> 01:45:45,520
of any

2713
01:45:50,790 --> 01:45:48,000
to the point where the organizers of

2714
01:45:52,950 --> 01:45:50,800
that conference asked me to give a third

2715
01:45:55,030 --> 01:45:52,960
presentation

2716
01:45:57,430 --> 01:45:55,040
so and they they gave me just a little

2717
01:45:59,750 --> 01:45:57,440
mic you know a little microphone and a

2718
01:46:02,950 --> 01:45:59,760
guitar amp for a sound system so my

2719
01:46:04,870 --> 01:46:02,960
voice was shot by the end of the day

2720
01:46:07,109 --> 01:46:04,880
but what i found out and there were

2721
01:46:09,109 --> 01:46:07,119
every there was like elementary students

2722
01:46:11,030 --> 01:46:09,119
elementary school students there their

2723
01:46:13,109 --> 01:46:11,040
parents were there there were secondary

2724
01:46:14,950 --> 01:46:13,119
school students there there were college

2725
01:46:17,270 --> 01:46:14,960
students there there were people from

2726
01:46:18,870 --> 01:46:17,280
the science museums there there were

2727
01:46:21,109 --> 01:46:18,880
astronauts there everybody you could

2728
01:46:24,149 --> 01:46:21,119
imagine was there and they were coming

2729
01:46:28,870 --> 01:46:24,159
to my presentation

2730
01:46:31,990 --> 01:46:28,880
on ufos and how to distinguish you know

2731
01:46:34,470 --> 01:46:32,000
a genuine ufo from something that's not

2732
01:46:35,350 --> 01:46:34,480
a ufo

2733
01:46:36,709 --> 01:46:35,360
so

2734
01:46:39,030 --> 01:46:36,719
at that point

2735
01:46:41,990 --> 01:46:39,040
i realized

2736
01:46:49,189 --> 01:46:46,870
the coal concept of ufos and uaps were

2737
01:46:52,390 --> 01:46:49,199
a very strong vehicle for education in

2738
01:46:58,470 --> 01:46:56,229
so that was in in 2013

2739
01:47:00,629 --> 01:46:58,480
and from that point on i started working

2740
01:47:02,870 --> 01:47:00,639
on uh what's what i call an

2741
01:47:04,470 --> 01:47:02,880
interdisciplinary

2742
01:47:09,510 --> 01:47:04,480
approach

2743
01:47:14,310 --> 01:47:09,520
to ufo i'm sorry uap education so i came

2744
01:47:19,350 --> 01:47:17,430
it's i call it interdisciplinary uap

2745
01:47:22,229 --> 01:47:19,360
education

2746
01:47:24,310 --> 01:47:22,239
now interdisciplinary just means

2747
01:47:25,830 --> 01:47:24,320
a discipline is an area of knowledge

2748
01:47:27,669 --> 01:47:25,840
like history

2749
01:47:29,510 --> 01:47:27,679
or science

2750
01:47:33,350 --> 01:47:29,520
interdisciplinary just means that you're

2751
01:47:36,310 --> 01:47:33,360
using two or more disciplines to come up

2752
01:47:39,350 --> 01:47:36,320
with a unique educational program so

2753
01:47:40,950 --> 01:47:39,360
that's what i started working on

2754
01:47:42,070 --> 01:47:40,960
since that's what i used to do for a

2755
01:47:44,470 --> 01:47:42,080
living

2756
01:47:46,550 --> 01:47:44,480
so i started creating standards and

2757
01:47:48,149 --> 01:47:46,560
curriculum and so forth for that kind of

2758
01:47:53,590 --> 01:47:48,159
a program

2759
01:47:55,189 --> 01:47:53,600
that has first of all it has five

2760
01:47:59,109 --> 01:47:55,199
disciplines

2761
01:48:00,070 --> 01:47:59,119
my program

2762
01:48:03,669 --> 01:48:00,080
are

2763
01:48:05,270 --> 01:48:03,679
ufo or i'm sorry i keep saying ufo uap

2764
01:48:06,550 --> 01:48:05,280
history

2765
01:48:08,390 --> 01:48:06,560
uap

2766
01:48:11,030 --> 01:48:08,400
aesthetics

2767
01:48:13,189 --> 01:48:11,040
uap evaluation

2768
01:48:14,709 --> 01:48:13,199
uap synthesis

2769
01:48:18,070 --> 01:48:14,719
and then

2770
01:48:20,470 --> 01:48:18,080
uap what are called in their independent

2771
01:48:22,470 --> 01:48:20,480
performance-based assessments and what

2772
01:48:24,229 --> 01:48:22,480
that would be for uaps would be sky

2773
01:48:26,950 --> 01:48:24,239
watches

2774
01:48:29,350 --> 01:48:26,960
so those are my five disciplines i use

2775
01:48:34,070 --> 01:48:29,360
all five of those disciplines to teach

2776
01:48:36,870 --> 01:48:34,080
about uaps and it's all based on science

2777
01:48:40,310 --> 01:48:38,550
the

2778
01:48:42,950 --> 01:48:40,320
most important

2779
01:48:45,189 --> 01:48:42,960
discipline of all of those

2780
01:48:46,709 --> 01:48:45,199
is the aesthetics discipline

2781
01:48:49,189 --> 01:48:46,719
and i thought you being an artist might

2782
01:48:50,790 --> 01:48:49,199
understand you know how aesthetics works

2783
01:48:52,629 --> 01:48:50,800
and things

2784
01:48:53,990 --> 01:48:52,639
yeah that was that was my number one

2785
01:48:55,109 --> 01:48:54,000
question i was going to ask you on the

2786
01:48:57,350 --> 01:48:55,119
list

2787
01:48:58,950 --> 01:48:57,360
okay yeah

2788
01:48:59,990 --> 01:48:58,960
so well let me let me just talk since we

2789
01:49:02,870 --> 01:49:00,000
only have a few missiles let me just

2790
01:49:05,669 --> 01:49:02,880
talk about the aesthetics component

2791
01:49:09,669 --> 01:49:05,679
pretty deeply then a little deeply

2792
01:49:12,470 --> 01:49:09,679
my aesthetics discipline has

2793
01:49:15,910 --> 01:49:12,480
five components to it

2794
01:49:18,550 --> 01:49:15,920
the first component is perception

2795
01:49:19,669 --> 01:49:18,560
and that has to do with perceiving an

2796
01:49:21,030 --> 01:49:19,679
object

2797
01:49:22,950 --> 01:49:21,040
or an event

2798
01:49:24,950 --> 01:49:22,960
with your senses

2799
01:49:27,270 --> 01:49:24,960
and now some scientists they used to say

2800
01:49:28,950 --> 01:49:27,280
we had five senses now they're finding

2801
01:49:32,550 --> 01:49:28,960
out that we have somewhere around

2802
01:49:33,270 --> 01:49:32,560
between 21 and 33 senses

2803
01:49:35,750 --> 01:49:33,280
so

2804
01:49:37,189 --> 01:49:35,760
my first component of the aesthetics

2805
01:49:39,510 --> 01:49:37,199
discipline is

2806
01:49:41,589 --> 01:49:39,520
perceiving perception the second

2807
01:49:43,189 --> 01:49:41,599
component is focus

2808
01:49:44,950 --> 01:49:43,199
because once you

2809
01:49:47,990 --> 01:49:44,960
have realized that you have something

2810
01:49:48,790 --> 01:49:48,000
special like a uap that you're looking

2811
01:49:51,830 --> 01:49:48,800
at

2812
01:49:53,350 --> 01:49:51,840
you start focusing on it

2813
01:49:56,629 --> 01:49:53,360
and

2814
01:49:58,550 --> 01:49:56,639
your brain starts kicking in so the

2815
01:50:01,030 --> 01:49:58,560
third component

2816
01:50:03,669 --> 01:50:01,040
of my

2817
01:50:06,470 --> 01:50:03,679
interdisciplinary uap education

2818
01:50:08,310 --> 01:50:06,480
program is

2819
01:50:10,629 --> 01:50:08,320
cognition

2820
01:50:12,870 --> 01:50:10,639
and this means that once you realize

2821
01:50:15,270 --> 01:50:12,880
you've got something special or unique

2822
01:50:17,910 --> 01:50:15,280
on your hands your brain starts working

2823
01:50:20,470 --> 01:50:17,920
on it you start working on it it starts

2824
01:50:22,550 --> 01:50:20,480
working on you and this is extremely

2825
01:50:24,950 --> 01:50:22,560
important probably as an artist you find

2826
01:50:28,550 --> 01:50:24,960
out that this is when you start picking

2827
01:50:30,950 --> 01:50:28,560
up the little nuances and actually

2828
01:50:33,669 --> 01:50:30,960
levels of nuances in something you have

2829
01:50:36,310 --> 01:50:33,679
to be able to do that to really pick out

2830
01:50:39,350 --> 01:50:36,320
a genuine uap

2831
01:50:42,070 --> 01:50:39,360
so then the fourth component

2832
01:50:44,870 --> 01:50:42,080
of this aesthetic experience

2833
01:50:46,550 --> 01:50:44,880
involves what's called affect

2834
01:50:49,510 --> 01:50:46,560
and this is when you have what's known

2835
01:50:52,390 --> 01:50:49,520
as a feelingful reaction

2836
01:50:54,390 --> 01:50:52,400
because your brain realizes you're

2837
01:50:56,149 --> 01:50:54,400
looking at something that's really

2838
01:50:57,589 --> 01:50:56,159
really special

2839
01:50:59,910 --> 01:50:57,599
now those

2840
01:51:01,350 --> 01:50:59,920
feeling for reactions or affective

2841
01:51:03,910 --> 01:51:01,360
responses

2842
01:51:05,510 --> 01:51:03,920
usually come in two flavors

2843
01:51:08,470 --> 01:51:05,520
you can either get like what i had when

2844
01:51:09,669 --> 01:51:08,480
i saw that ufo fly over my car when my

2845
01:51:11,229 --> 01:51:09,679
heart started racing and

2846
01:51:16,229 --> 01:51:11,239
hyperventilating

2847
01:51:18,390 --> 01:51:16,239
heart racing heart

2848
01:51:20,149 --> 01:51:18,400
and pulse that's one thing that can

2849
01:51:22,470 --> 01:51:20,159
happen once you realize you're

2850
01:51:24,870 --> 01:51:22,480
experiencing a true uap

2851
01:51:27,750 --> 01:51:24,880
the second thing that happens is you get

2852
01:51:29,430 --> 01:51:27,760
chills that run up and down your spine

2853
01:51:30,870 --> 01:51:29,440
and uh

2854
01:51:32,270 --> 01:51:30,880
that there's a name for that actually

2855
01:51:34,870 --> 01:51:32,280
it's called freon

2856
01:51:36,870 --> 01:51:34,880
f-r-i-s-s-o-n so once

2857
01:51:40,229 --> 01:51:36,880
your brain realizes you're looking at

2858
01:51:43,430 --> 01:51:40,239
something very very special

2859
01:51:45,750 --> 01:51:43,440
you start having that type of experience

2860
01:51:47,030 --> 01:51:45,760
and then the last component of my

2861
01:51:49,990 --> 01:51:47,040
aesthetics

2862
01:51:52,229 --> 01:51:50,000
discipline has to do with cultural

2863
01:51:54,709 --> 01:51:52,239
environment

2864
01:51:58,070 --> 01:51:54,719
none of this can happen unless you're in

2865
01:51:59,669 --> 01:51:58,080
an environment that really appreciates

2866
01:52:03,189 --> 01:51:59,679
real

2867
01:52:05,750 --> 01:52:03,199
uaps so you've got you you've got to be

2868
01:52:07,990 --> 01:52:05,760
in an environment that values the uap

2869
01:52:09,750 --> 01:52:08,000
phenomenon

2870
01:52:12,229 --> 01:52:09,760
that's basically

2871
01:52:15,350 --> 01:52:12,239
what that whole

2872
01:52:17,430 --> 01:52:15,360
program puts together

2873
01:52:19,109 --> 01:52:17,440
and i'm i'm already you know finding in

2874
01:52:21,510 --> 01:52:19,119
ways i think i think would be very

2875
01:52:24,790 --> 01:52:21,520
useful and since i've done this to start

2876
01:52:26,870 --> 01:52:24,800
putting this type of uh uap education

2877
01:52:30,550 --> 01:52:26,880
into the schools because that might be

2878
01:52:32,390 --> 01:52:30,560
the most reliable place to go you can't

2879
01:52:34,950 --> 01:52:32,400
really you know

2880
01:52:36,550 --> 01:52:34,960
lift up with the government or the uh

2881
01:52:37,910 --> 01:52:36,560
you know the

2882
01:52:41,189 --> 01:52:37,920
nonprofit

2883
01:52:42,950 --> 01:52:41,199
ufo or study groups you've you may have

2884
01:52:44,950 --> 01:52:42,960
there's enough

2885
01:52:46,629 --> 01:52:44,960
type of scrutiny that would happen if

2886
01:52:47,669 --> 01:52:46,639
you tried to put it into the educational

2887
01:52:48,790 --> 01:52:47,679
system

2888
01:52:51,589 --> 01:52:48,800
but it

2889
01:52:53,350 --> 01:52:51,599
it really works

2890
01:52:55,830 --> 01:52:53,360
excellent well thank you so much it's

2891
01:52:58,310 --> 01:52:55,840
been well let me ask you this is there a

2892
01:52:59,589 --> 01:52:58,320
way that someone could reach out to you

2893
01:53:01,750 --> 01:52:59,599
and

2894
01:53:03,109 --> 01:53:01,760
do you have a way for people to get in

2895
01:53:06,709 --> 01:53:03,119
touch with you

2896
01:53:09,510 --> 01:53:06,719
yeah if they go to my website there's a

2897
01:53:10,709 --> 01:53:09,520
a way they can get in contact with me

2898
01:53:14,350 --> 01:53:10,719
and it's i guess you would call it a

2899
01:53:16,070 --> 01:53:14,360
website it's www.ah

2900
01:53:18,310 --> 01:53:16,080
bobwenzelgross.com

2901
01:53:19,830 --> 01:53:18,320
wenzel w-e-n-z-e-l

2902
01:53:20,629 --> 01:53:19,840
right yes

2903
01:53:22,550 --> 01:53:20,639
yep

2904
01:53:24,229 --> 01:53:22,560
all right well thank you so much bob

2905
01:53:26,629 --> 01:53:24,239
it's been a real pleasure always fun to

2906
01:53:27,350 --> 01:53:26,639
talk to you same here all right thank

2907
01:53:30,390 --> 01:53:27,360
you

2908
01:53:33,910 --> 01:53:32,390
all right everyone so uh thanks for

2909
01:53:36,149 --> 01:53:33,920
being on the road with me we'll be back

2910
01:53:38,229 --> 01:53:36,159
next week hopefully with gary nolan if

2911
01:53:39,109 --> 01:53:38,239
not it's still going to be an excellent

2912
01:53:40,709 --> 01:53:39,119
show

2913
01:53:42,950 --> 01:53:40,719
with the vietnam

2914
01:53:44,790 --> 01:53:42,960
veteran that had quite an experience one

2915
01:53:49,170 --> 01:53:44,800
or the other all right take care and

2916
01:53:58,490 --> 01:53:49,180
remember to keep your eyes to the sky